NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

Yes.

The country is slowly waking up to the fact that a men's rights movement had, for a time, convinced everyone that rape victims were obliged to provide their unclothed presence for the satisfaction of men who wished to change with them. If the rape victims objected, they were to be cast out, vilified, smeared, hunted and attacked.

It's done. The spell is broken. Time for everyone to wake up, now.

Men don't have the right to be in spaces with unclothed women, even if it makes those men very, very sad.

that reminded me of the TMZ guy in the depp/heard case

At the end of my authorities means she has finished citing legal cases (authorities) and will move to making arguments, which will be the brilliant orating bit.

Heres your T-shirt. I’m not sure the ruffle works with it…

People are starting to return, no panel though yet.

Just a quick note, I live in France and have yet to find any mixed sex toilets.

Panel back

Aargh, we've got to that stage in proceedings where I'm 10 pages behind and once I've read the page I'm on, I'm still 10 pages behind! It's almost as bad as my state pension age, always 20 years away. And yes, I know I'm adding to it with this comment. See you all when I've caught up!

Charlotte Elves is missing from the room I think

Judge leaving room

We're back with discussion and checking of submissions

Is she doing the required redacting do we think?

Goodness me I've missed a lot. The 6 week holidays have been ROUGH. Frantically trying to catch up.

I think that if redactions are agreed we are going to be treated to copies of the submission so that should hopefully be clearer very soon!

It's so weird how people always claim that public toilets in France are all mixed sex and everyone is fine with that. I think it's meant to imply a lack of sophistication on the part of the women objecting to mixed sex toilets here, but however sophisticated they are, I cannot see Frenchwomen en masse being cool with wholesale mixed sex toilet provision.

I'm idly wondering whether the attempt to sweep the doctor's former name under the rug might have something to do with the possibility that after all this vexatious nonsense is over and done with and he's no longer getting lots of attention for this "Beth" stunt he's going to go back to using it professionally and doesn't want it to be associated with the case. He appears to be arrogant enough to think that people won't remember.

(I thought my conspiracy theory gene was recessive, but maybe its expression is more complicated than that.)

Although, I haven't heard any suggestion that the respondents' submission will be released, and the stuff we've heard from NC so far has all been knocking down legal arguments in those, so it may still be quite hard to understand from NC's submission alone!

Judge returning to room

CE is in room as well now I think.

I have seen (in french cafes usually) cubicles that you need to access via urinals. Its grim

NC and judge having a quick joke about more paperwork

And NC has finally started

This is the first time I've been following along in real time, hitting the refresh button. I bet there are lots of people who have always been behind so therefore are not commenting but are still following very closely. I'm still very hopeful about a future TV programme on this; it's been extraordinary.

EDIT: typo

It looks like the judge did his own photocopying.

Wish I was able to watch.

From TT

NC to J Do you have speaking note?
J No. Have revised submission. [Is being printed. Five copies needed. J has left to collect this.]

NC Sorry to load tribunal with more written material
J Can't have too much
NC May be a hostage to fortune
NC Q of convention rights in tribunal. Can't enforce HR rights unless req under HRA. R Art 8 ambitious claim for DU to have sss access rights . Would have to clear all 6

NC it is inconceivable you could be that confident