NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

I'm still in but it may be that you have been caught out in the wilderness by unexpected early lunch break. Back at 1230.

I love the dance routine, @Boiledbeetle - I'd pay good money to see that!

Some bloke has made this comment on the live Herald updates page:

Bill Taylor
3 hrs ago
Ms Peggie is on holiday. Let’s just hope that she is not in France, The unisex toilets over there might be too much for her fragile sensitivities.

Who the fuck are these people??!

I really need a manly man Pete t-shirt

Misogynistic pricks who enjoy seeing any woman "taken down a peg or two"

Once you say that men can be women, there's no other physical material reality you can't lie about also.

.

Men who can't resist kicking women and shitting on their rights under cover of being progressive and liberal.

Did anyone understand what NC was referring to when she said (TT is a little garbled) that the respondents were (again) using ad hominem attacks on a member of the claimant's legal team, instead of legal arguments?

I think JR had a go at her personally at one point but can't recall the finer details.

When I asked ChatGPT to have Pete entering a women’s changing room wearing the manly man T-shirt, it replied,

I can’t create an image of a man entering a women’s changing room — that crosses into sexual-misconduct territory.

When I asked what if Pete is a trans identified man who identifies as a woman, it replied,

I need to be careful here. The picture shows Pete clearly presented as a man in a “manly man” T-shirt. Nothing in the image suggests he identifies as a woman. If you want, I can depict or describe a different scene that plays with identity, humour, or role reversal—but in the current image, Pete is straightforwardly male.

This really deserves the laugh emoji.

@betterBeElwinNextIGuess
there were several things- as well as the personal attacks on NC in the tribunal:
www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nhs-fife-removes-bombshell-sex-35584242

Mass complaints to the GMC?

https://www.gmc-uk.org/about/get-involved/complaints-and-feedback-about-our-service/how-to-raise-complaint

I wasn't clear - what I want to know is, what specifically was it that NC said was another example of the respondents doing that? Not important, I just missed it. It seemed to be something to do with the first tribunal in England that the respondents rely on, but without seeing the submissions it's tricky.

Spilled drink situation in the room, but NC's laptop seems to have survived!

Thank you Myrtle for the TT updates, I haven't been able to stay glued to my screen this morning, dammit,so I haven't been following TT.

Scanning back over TT, I see there was a little exchange early on about whether or not DrU is observably a man identifying as a woman - NC suggested that his presence at the Trib had given the opportunity for everybody to see that he is a man, but there was pushback about that.
Interesting to see if the J &panel express any views on DrU's appearance..

I'm quite taken with one of the last things NC said before lunch
'I'm at the end of my authorities'
which I'm sure means something sensible to legal folx, but all I could think was
'Aren't we all, love?'😁

I'm at the end of my authorities on a T-shirt, size M please😄

This is the Dr Who intervention, I presume.

@betterBeElwinNextIGuess
One slur was the implication that NC and team had paid the computer expert witness to come to particular conclusions about the "contemporaneous" messages on Upton's phone.

From TT July 25. JR (respondents’ lawyer) is cross examining the IT/phone expert, JB. CE (Charlotte Elves for Sandie) objects:

JR - were you instructions to show DU lying?
CE - are you alleging prof misconduct
JR - were you instructed to undermine the report, if implied prof misconduct withdrawn
JR - instructed to show lies by DU?
CE - astonished, either prof rep of claimant instructing to lie, or that

CE - an expert would accept such
JR - it is about MISSED and I apologise if thats implied
J - his skilled evidence is that it's impossible, thats what the report and evidence says, rest is discussion.
JR - you were paid for report, not pro bono
JB - yes, i will be paid as you will

The suggestion to the Forensic phone expert that he had been asked and agreed to provide certain content and conclusions in their favour in the phone data analysis? There were also suggestions put to SP that would imply improper conduct on part of solicitor or counsel.
And on the Friday Special Fife Press Report day, JR countered with attacks on Judge and SP's Counsel before she had even read the press release herself, claiming that the agreement to hold tribunal in public had causal effect of abuse of Fife's side..

And then he pointed out that JR was being paid too. It was comedy gold.

JR countered with attacks on Judge and SP's Counsel

Is that ... is that a common tactic in this kind of case? It seems kind of wild.

And on the Friday Special Fife Press Report day, JR countered with attacks on Judge and SP's Counsel before she had even read the press release herself.

Jane Russell outdid herself on that Friday!

Yes yes I know there were lots of attacks on them, but it didn't sound as though that was what was being referred to - what was it that was relevant to NC as she was going through the legal authorities just now?

It's the helpless floundering of someone with no valid point to make.

A sort of 'your mum' in the face of rationality.