NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

Looking good! Perhaps a dash more avocado? Dino eyes on stalks?
(Also, as an occassional AI dabbler, please can you list the AI prompt (the words fed to generate the image eg 'soup gets up nose of swivel eyed dino upset at low signal to noise ratio' )

Yeah, she's not meant to but it is clearly a thing that happens. Rightly or wrongly.

This is by far the biggest issue at play here. To an extent, I hope it goes to appeal.

Most of them barely know her, and first names seem to be the norm, so they actually call her Sandie and may not all even know whether she is married or not.

Great analogy! Couldn't agree more! 😀

Congrats!

JR does though and she's called her Miss Peggie (sounding like miss piggie) from the start.

I suspect this is well rehearsed and self protective ...in the light of what became of the other witnesses.

Yes, she's been doing her homework and may well have war-gamed her answers in advance, as any ambitious and professional person would do. She's noticeably more fluent and on top of the material than previous witnesses.

Re the 'hearsay' comments, I wonder if she's positioning Esther Davidson as leaky and unprofessional. The fact that she's a rugby player is significant: women in sport have been towards the front of the GC curve.

She's definitely married to Mr Peggie, so should be Mrs or Ms. Unless she suddenly decides to identify as non-binary and go for Mx 😂

Just before the adjournment in Feb the Judge specifically acknowledged that it would be difficult for upcoming witnesses to completely avoid mention of the case in the press but that they should do their best. (my paraphrase)

I heard "he said / she said" on the two or three occasions LM used the phrase.

The witness must not read the news or talk to other witnesses. However we all have friends and family and the likelihood that no-one has warned her what a shitshow this is is more remote than Upton considering anyone's feelings but his own.

CM clearly felt she had to treat Upton as female. However the Supreme Court has made it clear that was never the law. She was discriminating against Sandie (and all other female staff) by allowing a man to continue to use aa female changing room.

I expect Pete to appear in cross examination.

I do think this is an important post. Particularly bearing in mind that people post personal info on other threads using the same username. I think we're all aware of how obsessive some of the TRAs are (not to mention how many of them actually don't have anything better to do with their time than spend hours searching for info online to allow them to dox evil terfs)

AuldTheDeepMinded · Today 13:07
Damn it, I've got to head off for my graduation ceremony in a minute. At this rate, I'll be walking across the stage glued to my phone.

Well done!🍾

'literally every fascist'.

Hyperbole never mind possible defamation. What a dickhead.

It's a sneck

Agree, and quite a few people have identified themselves as nurses or doctors along with other public service professions, so best to be mindful.

a terrifying huge swivel eyed dinosaur making potato salad while watching laptop

I do have to have several goes, usually, tweaking the prompt each time. It reminds me of conversations with a friend for whom English wasn't even her second language: I'd be thinking how I was about to phrase things, & if she seemed not to understand, I'd try to make what I'd said simpler.

But sometimes the AI just refuses to play ball, no matter what I say, & that's frustrating.

Which is the most sensible approach.

My guess is that the issue will be tactfully ignored by all parties, unless someone says something that makes it impossible to ignore that they've been reading up on what the other witnesses have said.

I have to agree that for those of us who are working etc it is really really difficult to understand what is going on when there are pages of just chat, I'm wondering if it's worth setting up a different thread with just the key bits that are important throughout the day

She can type? is there no end to her brlliance...
Maybe her mam was like my mam who said I should learn to type so I'd always have something to fall back on if my 'notions' about doing unheard of things like going to Uni didn't work out..

the Uni 'notions' did work out, but reader, I am touch typing at great speed thanks to my mother's advice.

So far this witnesses seems to basically be saying I telt them, an it's no my fault the high heidjins are bampots. Whit can ye dae when dealing wi eejits?

I may be wrong, but my first reaction on finding out this is what they wanted is that there is a libel suit incoming and they intend to sue both NHS Fife and the individuals who signed off the statement.

Here’s a question….Presumably JR knows what happened last week in the trial (as she was there!) and presumably part of JR’s job is to prepare her witnesses. So presumably she can say things like “Now Lottie - that answer you gave about not knowing your chromosomes probably isn’t the most sensible of you don’t want people to laugh at you”.

But isn’t that the equivalent of CM having seen the memes about Isla Bumba? How many clues can JR give?

If that's what you want surely you can just follow tribunal tweets? Or start your own thread.