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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #26

1000 replies

nauticant · 15/05/2025 22:36

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access. However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was doubtful whether pubilc access for remote viewing would be reinstated but recent developments (as of mid May) suggest that this might actually become available again.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25

OP posts:
Thread gallery
45
SternJoyousBee · 21/06/2025 17:05

I didn’t think she was still suspended. Wasn’t that lifted after Upton moved to a new rotation? I thought she might be in sick leave though. And whether she is being paid will then depend on how much sick leave she has had.

Iamnotalemming · 21/06/2025 17:17

Harassedevictee · 20/06/2025 22:04

I suggested similar like the post office enquiry.

Show quote history

Me too

Needspaceforlego · 21/06/2025 19:34

SternJoyousBee · 21/06/2025 17:05

I didn’t think she was still suspended. Wasn’t that lifted after Upton moved to a new rotation? I thought she might be in sick leave though. And whether she is being paid will then depend on how much sick leave she has had.

Possibly, and yes it could be NHS Fife were thinking she'd run out of sick leave and money and therefore have to drop the case.

Thank God for her courage determination and that magical backer of hers.

This is such an important case for both NHS Staff and Patients with much wider implications for women in the UK.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 21/06/2025 21:14

She was suspended for about 3 months, I think. Then allowed back but only offered the choice of day shifts, when she'd previously worked exclusively nights, or a different department.

The suspension would have been on full pay, but that and the return conditions would have meant losing out on unsocial hours payments - which can be quite significant. And that would also reduce the amount of pension she's building up.

Enough4me · 21/06/2025 23:56

I hope she sues for the total loss for earnings/pension/distress etc. A figure to make the NHS managers realise it pays to be honest over talking rubbish.
It's taxpayers' money and Sandie is a taxpayer, who didn't cause this (an entitled man & groupies did) and she deserves to win.

TheOtherRaven · 22/06/2025 10:03

I would think at this point she is necessarily going to have to sue for the total loss of her career and all future earnings. NHS Fife have permitted the destruction of it.

The damage to her reputation and record, the now very long period of suspension and being out of work which would mean she cannot just walk back into her job, the publicity of the case and of the extreme prejudice demonstrated by the NHS which would make it a very high risk that as a known name she will experience that prejudice and discrimination in any NHS job in the area, and thats before the sheer stress and emotional damage all this will have caused her, the loss of her pension if she can no longer work... it's not improbable that Sandie may never be able to work again because of Dr Upton's feelings one night. She is going to need the income to survive his choices for the rest of her life.

inkymoose · 22/06/2025 13:31

TheOtherRaven · 22/06/2025 10:03

I would think at this point she is necessarily going to have to sue for the total loss of her career and all future earnings. NHS Fife have permitted the destruction of it.

The damage to her reputation and record, the now very long period of suspension and being out of work which would mean she cannot just walk back into her job, the publicity of the case and of the extreme prejudice demonstrated by the NHS which would make it a very high risk that as a known name she will experience that prejudice and discrimination in any NHS job in the area, and thats before the sheer stress and emotional damage all this will have caused her, the loss of her pension if she can no longer work... it's not improbable that Sandie may never be able to work again because of Dr Upton's feelings one night. She is going to need the income to survive his choices for the rest of her life.

I hadn't thought of that. What an awful prospect.

I used to work in the NHS and was bullied out of my job by management ganging up on me over a fictitious complaint. I was off sick for some time but then got another similar job in another town. The whole thing was quite horrific.

In my case, I never fully recovered from the bullying and false accusations I'd been faced with. I carried on working (as I needed to) but my confidence was knocked.

I fervently hope that Sandie can continue working in the same job she's been doing for so long, with her friends and colleagues, in her community, after she wins the employment tribunal. She may not wish to, but I think if she did want to return, it would help her recover from all the emotional and reputational damage she's endured so far.

prh47bridge · 22/06/2025 13:43

TheOtherRaven · 22/06/2025 10:03

I would think at this point she is necessarily going to have to sue for the total loss of her career and all future earnings. NHS Fife have permitted the destruction of it.

The damage to her reputation and record, the now very long period of suspension and being out of work which would mean she cannot just walk back into her job, the publicity of the case and of the extreme prejudice demonstrated by the NHS which would make it a very high risk that as a known name she will experience that prejudice and discrimination in any NHS job in the area, and thats before the sheer stress and emotional damage all this will have caused her, the loss of her pension if she can no longer work... it's not improbable that Sandie may never be able to work again because of Dr Upton's feelings one night. She is going to need the income to survive his choices for the rest of her life.

Damages for loss of career is possible but extremely rare, and I don't think it will be awarded in the current case. As things stand, she is still employed by NHS Fife. If they don't allow her to return to work or act in ways that limit her earnings or pension, or her opportunities for promotion, she will be able to bring further claims against them.

If she has medical evidence that the impact of this case means she is unable to resume her career, she may get damages for loss of career. However, I am not aware of any such evidence being advanced in this case.

SternJoyousBee · 22/06/2025 13:52

TheOtherRaven · 22/06/2025 10:03

I would think at this point she is necessarily going to have to sue for the total loss of her career and all future earnings. NHS Fife have permitted the destruction of it.

The damage to her reputation and record, the now very long period of suspension and being out of work which would mean she cannot just walk back into her job, the publicity of the case and of the extreme prejudice demonstrated by the NHS which would make it a very high risk that as a known name she will experience that prejudice and discrimination in any NHS job in the area, and thats before the sheer stress and emotional damage all this will have caused her, the loss of her pension if she can no longer work... it's not improbable that Sandie may never be able to work again because of Dr Upton's feelings one night. She is going to need the income to survive his choices for the rest of her life.

I agree.

She needs to win sufficient damages to cover her past and future losses. NHS Fife through their attempts to discipline her following the last day of the hearing in Feb show was looks very much like retaliatory motives.

SqueakyDinosaur · 22/06/2025 14:39

SternJoyousBee · 22/06/2025 13:52

I agree.

She needs to win sufficient damages to cover her past and future losses. NHS Fife through their attempts to discipline her following the last day of the hearing in Feb show was looks very much like retaliatory motives.

Show quote history

In the long, long procession of gratuitously spiteful and cruel moves from NHS Fife, that was one of the worst. I know it isn't what an ET is for, but I'd like to see the senior people involved absolutely eviscerated.

Nameychangington · 22/06/2025 16:23

The fact that NHS Fife threw away a nurse of 30 years experience (so knows everything) who is working at band 5 (cheapest RN band) who actually chose to work permanent nights (not generally wanted) in A& E (highly stressful) just blows my mind. They should have bitten both her hands off instead they did...this. And for what? A ten a penny junior doctor who'd have been rotated out in a few months. Truly the sacred caste.

NebulousSupportPostcard · 22/06/2025 16:52

Needspaceforlego · 21/06/2025 16:28

I think she must be, NHS Fife suspended her, they can't suspended her and not pay her because she is still their employee. They didn't sack her (that would be unfair dismissal) and they didn't make her redundant (also unfair dismissal)
While suspended I doubt shs would be able to claim benefits as she is employed and shes not free to look for another job.

All just adds to the cost to NHS Fife.
Hope Sandie has been enjoying chilling in the garden the last week or two, soaking up some sunshine. 🌞

Ill stand corrected if someone with more knowledge comes along

Show quote history

I thought I read in the press that she went back to work after the first weeks/months of suspension (Dr U would have moved on to a new role by the August of that first year it kicked off). But she has been off work with stress since the February tribunal. That could become problematic if she runs out of entitlement to full pay but, as a longserving NHS nurse, her contract probably allows 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay? I would imagine that her salary is the last thing Fife is worried about at the moment, and there will be routes they can take to continue with her usual pay until it is settled, if they want to minimise letters from the solicitor (that are being simultaneously broadcast to the press).

Needspaceforlego · 22/06/2025 20:20

I do hope her backer is making sure she is ok financially too. She was certainly looking a lot less stressed the other week on the telly.

I suspect some one probably the Fife Equalitys lady will end up being the Fife scapegoat, pay the price get sacked and it will be business as usual for the rest of them.

Unless someone in NHS Fife is brave enough to point the finger at ScotGov we followed your guidelines.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 22/06/2025 23:54

her contract probably allows 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay?

Yes, that's the NHS standard. Although I suspect on the basic salary for her grade, excluding the enhancements for nights.

Madcats · 23/06/2025 19:37

Judge Kemp has opined re TT access etc (and some of it is getting a public airing on TT’s substack)……

OhBuggerandArse · 23/06/2025 20:01

They've taken it down - ' A reader spotted that some of the redactions were not properly done, and text could be read through the black line.'

Oh how I wish I had seen.

TheAutumnCrow · 23/06/2025 20:42

I’m on tenterhooks here

Original poster
nauticant · 23/06/2025 20:45

TT said they'll reinstate the page once the redactions are not partial:

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1937223002640515581

OP posts:
spannasaurus · 23/06/2025 20:49

If I understood it correctly Upton isn't required to hand over his phone.

It wasn't easy to read so not 100% I've got that right

OhBuggerandArse · 23/06/2025 20:50

spannasaurus · 23/06/2025 20:49

If I understood it correctly Upton isn't required to hand over his phone.

It wasn't easy to read so not 100% I've got that right

Oh man, that is disappointing. Was there any explanation/justification?

spannasaurus · 23/06/2025 20:53

In terms of online access to the tribunal there's some places reserved for press etc and there will be 300 spaces available for the general public

Access is going to be given on a first come first served basis according to when the court receives a request for access.

Anyone who wants to view online should request a link as soon as its possible as they think demand will outstrip supply

spannasaurus · 23/06/2025 20:55

OhBuggerandArse · 23/06/2025 20:50

Oh man, that is disappointing. Was there any explanation/justification?

Show quote history

Yes but couldn't understand most of it. Lots of references to past cases. I think it boiled down to a tribunal didn't have the power to demand the phone as it didn't have the same powers of other courts

SternJoyousBee · 23/06/2025 21:00

Will the court be able to draw its own conclusions about missing documents?

spannasaurus · 23/06/2025 21:00

BTW all of the information in my posts is from the unredacted parts of the order.

Harassedevictee · 23/06/2025 21:16

@spannasaurus thank you. I’ve emailed for access.

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