I am gobsmacked by what I'm reading on other forums

[WallaceinAnderland]

This (my underlining)

"It seems to me, that the core issue that is behind all the bigotry and transphobia is the issue of predatory men. Obviously, I know that certain bigots won't change their minds. I'm not talking about that minority, I'm talking about the easily swayed majority.

"The whole "debate" centres around protecting women. I think we need to reframe it. We need to reframe it so that we protect ALL women (including trans women and women of colour) from predatory men."

I mean, what the actual fuck? Can this person not see their racism?

It's literally a meme.
"0 days without comparing black women to men."

Idiots.

Dear god, not only are they horrifically sexist they’re horrifically racist to boot 🤬

I bet this is Reddit again.

r/transgenderUK is the mouth of madness, but I go there to keep apprised of the flat earth view. (Actually, flat earthers seem quaint compared to them.) It's a good showcase of what happens when you have complete censorship.

'No debate' was censorship.

They probably feel the same way about posts on here to be honest.

I feel like online echo chambers, with algorithms designed to feed us what we already think have lead to a huge polarisation in views. We are so used to just being in online spaces where everyone agrees differing views feel like an affront to the senses.

Difference is that they can come here and openly argue their views without being kicked out and banned. Usually doesn't work like that the other way around.

Snap.

Regardless of anyone's view on sex and gender, how can anyone justify using the phrase 'women (and women of colour)'.

I am used to the nonsense of men being women but I just can't get my head around this. It's so blatantly racist.

I was just typing the same.
I used to visit r/transgenderuk and similar subreddits because I thought it important to read 'the other aide' and see if there was anything I was missing. Any substance to their claims and why they believe the things they do.
Occasionally i'd see some fairly sensible threads but mostly ridiculous nonsense such as cross sex hormones DO change your biology. Terfs are ignorant of modern science. Cis people want us all dead and so on and all applauding and agreeing with each other. Anyone who disagreed, banned and kicked out.
I can't even go there now because I find the ignorance and flat-earth style thinking frustrating.
People claim that when TRA come over here, they get piled on and that's sometimes the case, but as PP have mentioned, they are free to post and never banned for expressing their views/beliefs.
That's why this isn't an echo chamber but trans reddit certainly is.

I would largely disagree. I’ve posted on a few threads on here and I was told by loads of people to go away (not a direct quote, but that was always the message they were getting across). A few people engaged with me in a civil manner but the majority didn’t. You might not get banned on here but you do definitely get dog piled and need to reply to 50 leading questions in the space of 5 minutes, which makes it hard to have a genuine dialogue.

But it’s the same for Reddit. They’re equally an echo chamber. I just don’t think it’s a ‘them’ issue.

Yes, some echo chambers separate out black women from the sex class of women and others talk about the Supreme Court ruling and what it means.

Although, I doubt the Supreme Court panel formulated their decisions based on algorithms telling them what to think.

Just a hunch.

One of the things I value most about Mumsnet is that they didn't go down the algo route. Apart from things we may have chosen to block (which I don't) we all see the same active posts.

Err you aren't banned. At least I think you posted your own post?

Despite your differing views.

Anyone can say "go away" or whatever but you are still here.

And even if someone does decide to go away, their posts remain. Everyone can see there was someone who disagreed.

That is absolutely NOT what happens to Gender Critical comments in the heavily moderated genderist forums. Unless you are there to see what is said before it's deleted all you have is a missing post and someone telling you how awful it was.

If you talk bullshit or are anti-women then it’s not surprising to be told to go away - and not just on this board.

With gender identity ideology being both bullshit and anti women….you can catch my drift.

One big difference is you don't see us going to pro trans forums just to post a goady, baiting thread. Or the same comment thats been refuted thousands of times (Did you know you all have a gender neutral toilet in your very own home!)
Whereas we have to put up with a lot of that.

I’m not l banned, no, hence me saying ‘you might not get banned on here.’

But my point is that this is an echo chamber which shuts down opposing views and dogpiles onto them. Also LOADS of people here use manipulation tactics in dialogues which makes it difficult to hold a genuine conversation with them.

How is it an echo chamber if people are regularly posting dissenting opinions to others on the same thread?

@WhatNextCatsAsDoctors I don’t agree with you. I have had my arse handed to me here when I’ve been wrong/have misunderstood/or been naive. As long as you think and engage, you don’t get a dog pile.

The dog piles tend to happen when someone is refusing to consider a different perspective and just repeats some formulaic ‘science is more complicated than that/stop trying to police people’s genitals/be kind’ type mantras.

People here can have robust disagreements, but still stick around and thrash things out.

I don’t see shouting down and shutting people up.

It may feel like that if you don’t actually have an argument worth debating, of course.

What do you mean by shuts down opposing views?

Its pretty obvious that views which centre on removing women’s human rights, or try to convince people to take on board a belief system involving some sort of internal gendered essence are not going to gain much traction amongst the mainly clever and well informed women here.

I don't see how you can disagree with that. You can (and do) openly air your views and haven't been banned or had posts deleted.
Many people will pile on if they don't agree with you (general you) or if you make statements that aren't factual.
That's wildly different to reddit and increasingly FB where GC views are banned, blocked, deleted.
Ironically MM is the only online forum I've found where both sides can actually engage in discussion with each other.

Off topic, but if there's one pronoun we really need it's a Generic You. "One" just doesn't cut it.

It's not difficult to hold a genuine conversation here. You might not like another person's view, or agree with it but conversation is absolutely what we are here for.

We are not the ones who insisted on no debate.