NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

Mushrooms were definitely involved.

I think the mushroom farm is correct.

Too late at night for me to start reading the actual bill to check the crime/incident distinction, but this facsheet suggests that the nececessity to have an actual crime for the former is maintained. https://www.gov.scot/publications/hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-act-factsheet/

Although whoever wrote it apparently can't count to 4, so the information may not be entirely reliable.

Ah thanks - the lingo is probably more from that then.

The “Fully Repeal the Gender Recognition Act” petition is at 12973 now. Rate of signatures slowed down a bit

Happy pancake day

Love it! Happy Teacake day to everyone!

Aha - gotcha! Excellent sleuthing and isolating. Shame no one in Fife (or, it seems the entire UK) had thought to do that sooner. 🤦‍♀️

Scottish Daily Express eking out the coverage…

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/new-twist-sandie-peggie-row-34794111

Ooo, question for you, while you’re crunching and isolating (sounds like a Pilates class…):

Can you determine by whom? As in, females are assaulted by whom/trans people are assaulted by whom? I’m going to go out on a limb and say I think I already know the answer to this, but just in case…

I'm glad they're playing up the seriousness of that accusation. I found it jaw-dropping.

EITHER it was happened and was documented at the time in which case the hospital was being dangerously negligent in not making very sure it couldn't be repeated

OR it happened and wasn't documented, which means the witness, Upton, was prepared to risk patient safety rather than follow correct procedure

OR it didn't happen and Upton and his representatives were making up a story detrimental to the hospital's reputation in order to slander SP and should be sued by her and by the hospital.

Really shocking carry-on.

Presume they are putting a new article up each day because the one from the day before got so many views, rather than some terven agenda.

DeanElderberry · Today 08:58

I'm glad they're playing up the seriousness of that accusation. I found it jaw-dropping.

I'm of the opinion that it's the last option.

NC and team need DU’s phone.

It’s essential to see the BMA advice to DU and any exchanges that involved Fife staff that have yet to be disclosed.

It may even be in DU’s interests to disclose these if guided to ratchet up complaints or even embroider incidents.

Nmind - just saw you said sexually assaulted. That deals with the “by whom”.

As you were!

Just PMKing to follow.

The words non-crime hate incident send my brain into a spin every single time I hear them. Still unable to actually comprehend them.

I also vaguely remember sex shop owners being some of the 'trusted persons you could declare those to... and back to the spinning 😲

No you're correct and not high on mushrooms; as well as being able to go into a sex shop to report "hate" you can also visit a mushroom farm.

This is the level of political competence we have here in Scotland. That and the furry hate monster that the police put out to complement the hate act. The SNP, greens and all those who follow them including our police and prison service have turned us into a laughing stock.

Only mushroom farms? Not dairy farms? I suppose an industry full of people prepared to pay money for sexed semen might not be the most sympathetic. Fish farms? Raspberry farms?

I don't even know where the nearest mushroom farm is.

Mushrooms are the only sexually reproducing organism that don't follow the 'only 2 sexes' rule.

Coincidence?

(Yes, of course it is - but the whole situation is so ridiculous that it might as well be a dsft conspiracy theory.)

Being pedantic, that doesn't entirely deal with the "by whom". The vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by men but it isn't 100%. Rape offenders, on the other hand, are always male as rape can only be committed by someone in possession of a penis.

I believe that the allegations that Upton made up about Peggie endangering patients don't put him in a good position at all.

It's acts and omissions usually that determine liability. He can mitigate it but by not reporting as soon as reasonable he's in the dock with her.

If he made it up/exaggerated to undermine her and strengthen his case then he should have the book thrown at him.

a question please, if DU phone is produced and throws up more evidence would he have to recalled for further cross-examination?

We're gonna need a bigger courtroom. And more bandwidth!

I believe that the allegations that Upton made up about Peggie endangering patients don't put him in a good position at all.

Good. A life lesson he's taught himself.

My generous interpretation is that Upton is hyper alert for signs of anyone rejecting him as a woman. So, if a nurse walks away from him, he sees it as a sign that she's rejecting him as a trans person-- not a sign that she's in a hurry on a busy shift, or that she judges one medic per patient to be enough (or that she just finds him irritating because he would lecture the hind leg off a donkey, so keeps their interaction as short as possible).