NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

Murdo Fraser, ahead of tomorrow's Scottish Parliament debate in single-sex spaces: https://archive.is/Z1QhU

More info in this latest newsletter from For Women Scotland, too: https://mailchi.mp/forwomen/single-sex-spaces-debate-in-scottish-parliament

I'm amazed, & quite pleased, to see a tory msp quoting the Morningstar with approval
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/wake-call-trade-union-movement
apols for repost

I've been feeling like I've fallen through the looking glass for several years now and every time I think it can't get any more weird, it does.

Journalism was supposed to be about telling the truth to power, but there's not a lot of that about these days.

Even more weird - I’m feeling so grateful for DU today - who will probably go down in history as a feminist icon (although not for the reasons they might have expected)! Comeuppance for being so vindictive I suppose.

It's such a a juvenile response. Whether or not civil servants or politicians are 'proud' of something is irrelevant. It's not responding to the concerns raised in a professional way. Citizens, voters are explaining how the law as it stands in reality doesn't work and harms women and their response is they're proud of that? Not fit for purpose and not doing their jobs properly.

For a start they could explain what the protections are for any business wanting to use the single sex exemption and how they plant to 'uphold' the law but no, just word salad and self awarded merit badges. Embarrassing.

💯

edited to add that you make this point so powerfully! 😍

I remember getting a similar response after signing the previous repeal the GRA petition, with the 'checks and balances' stuff. And that was before this government got in.

Another point that the likes of Chapman refuse to recognsie is the "If you build it, they will come" aspect. If you put in place legislation that enables natal males to access women's (and in some cases, children's) spaces, then bad actors will take advantage. We've already seen this, with the influx of defendants appearing in court who suddenly seem to have discovered their inner woman, and numerous other examples.

Indeed. So idealistic, so naive.

That's what concerns me about her, is it naivety?

You honestly wonder, eh? inability to think of abstract scenarios ? Sheltered life? I‘ve had a lifetime of shit from men but even I was naive til my own BAM moment…

Surely it can’t be anything more sinister? One thing is for sure, you certainly realise how much internalised misogyny there is among the Be Kind tribe. Our needs… right at the bottom of the pile. Every single time.

And if doctors create a bullshit diagnosis ('gender dysphoria' diagnostic criteria are a combination of body dysmorphia symptoms specific to sex characteristics - body dysmorphia is already a diagnosis, it could be a subset of this, and key to treatment is absolutely not affirming - and non-conformity to sexist stereotypes, which should in no way be pathologised), then some people will think they (or their children) have it. And then there will be demand for the (completely inappropriate) interventions. The medical profession created this mess before the law waded in and made it even worse. Imo the medical profession needs to end it.

@NotAGentleReminder But will that include the Moroccan medical profession this time round? Or will having to pay limit the uptake sufficiently?

n
Rosie Duffield speaking a couple of days ago

I notice the second speaker sidestepped the question about there being no hierarchy of protected characteristics.

Agree

In the other Darlington nurses case, they are still squeezing into the ward manager’s office (there are photos) whilst Rose is continuing to use the female locker room.

https://x.com/darlingtonunion/status/1900133911474188581?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

Not changing rooms but how is it possible to have the Queen writing a personal letter to Justine Pelicot and seeing the creepy ordinary-ness of the men - yet claim that biological males in single sex spaces is ok?! There are clearly a subset of men who will go to unprecedented lengths to abuse women. Safeguarding is not a nice to have….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mwk1evlvzo.amp

I don't think that anyone else has posted this? A local paper has an article about the Vic's recent inspection report.

https://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/25006874.victoria-hospital-fife-considerable-pressure/?ref=socialflow

Management seem to have more important things to consider than maintaining hygiene. FFS.

Also in The Courier:
https://archive.is/tr2eO

Yet another splendid contribution from NC - CLAW. Conspicuously Law-Abiding Women. See Newman vs Met Police thread.

Famous artist Birdy Rose T-shirt.

thefamousartistbirdyrose.com/collections/claw

Am catching up with this thread but thought you would appreciate an ironically timing event that happened to me this week! I posted earlier i couldn’t help with Knotty’s thread as I am in hospital (and also lack the brain power atm) and the other night a man attempted to enter my hospital room! I am in a side room and luckily he only got as far as just through the doorway before security staff dragged him out, another irony is that these were external security sitting outside my room who happened to be there with another patient! I got as far as a “WHAT THE FUCK” and then they had hold of him but it was scary. scary how inarticulate i was as it was an automatic involvuntory reaction rather than a reasonable response like screaming for help. I had a call button attached to me but didnt have the response speed quick enough to press it and was also wired up to a load of machines restricting my movement. it’s also hard to tell how much of my crap reaction was normal “shock” and how much was due to crap cognitive function and physical disabilities! the main “luck” was that the security guards happened to be there. it was an example of how vulnerable women are in hospital.

I don’t want to be outing about the type of I was on but it’s niche so mixed sex but bay rooms are single sex (well probably single “gender”) and there may well have been no “ill intent” behind the man’s actions,and the way the security staff handled him indicated that there probably wasn’t - it’s hard to explain esp. not wanting to be outing, or speculate on others cognitive functions. if that makes sense. Anyway it’s just really relevant atm so I thought I’d post about it.it also really illustrates (right word?) the reasons why impact on others shld be part of risk assessments - not just women’s safety but disabled women who are even more vulnerable. It made me realise how much the type of ward really also has an huge impact on this risk. there are so many variables from a male doctor pretending he is a woman, to a male patient with lack of capacity to a male patient with ill intent etc etc. hope all this makes enough sense as I’m struggling a bit atm, I’ll also post this on Knottys thread.

I’ll decide what to do about my event as it definitely needs raising to the trust,DH will help me draft something when im up to it. just happens to be extremely timely.

Sounds quite frightening. I'm glad the security were there and we're able to wrangle him. It's horrifying the number of sexual assaults and even rapes that happen on hospital properties.