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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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ChokkaQuokka · 14/08/2023 14:08

Helleofabore · 14/08/2023 11:51

Lost my post after typing it a
out.

I realise now that I probably read that it was a ‘tinder’ date and that they were rejected and didn’t think more about it. I would have read abc and Amy smh and the police probably hadn’t contacted the women in the USA at that time.

Thanks for that link. That has given more clarity.

Show quote history

I’m also Australian, if the handle didn’t make it obvious 😄 and have been in that 7-11.

The Tinder date element was reported on by some of the local media during the trial, but not beforehand, and the SMH/ABC/Guardian axis of TWAW downplayed it. It was mainly in the Murdoch media. So it’s no surprise if you missed it – the “I went murderous after a lesbian wouldn’t put out with me, and chopped up a couch in anger when another woman I flirted with online turned out to be into men” angle on the story is pretty inconvenient to the gender supremacy narrative. I don’t even remember reading about the US witness at the time, even though she testified on the same day.

Which is why the Buzzfeed story is so interesting – it’s not the outlet you’d expect would write a story that allowed people to read between the lines.

ChokkaQuokka · 14/08/2023 14:12

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but I think it’s important context showing that even if they don’t turn up in latex with an erection, allowing TW into lesbian dating events is potentially dangerous. Given rejection is often met with rage, I fear it’s only a matter of time before someone is actually killed, either the rejecting woman or (as in the 7/11 attack) completely random strangers.

Helleofabore · 14/08/2023 14:16

ChokkaQuokka · 14/08/2023 14:08

I’m also Australian, if the handle didn’t make it obvious 😄 and have been in that 7-11.

The Tinder date element was reported on by some of the local media during the trial, but not beforehand, and the SMH/ABC/Guardian axis of TWAW downplayed it. It was mainly in the Murdoch media. So it’s no surprise if you missed it – the “I went murderous after a lesbian wouldn’t put out with me, and chopped up a couch in anger when another woman I flirted with online turned out to be into men” angle on the story is pretty inconvenient to the gender supremacy narrative. I don’t even remember reading about the US witness at the time, even though she testified on the same day.

Which is why the Buzzfeed story is so interesting – it’s not the outlet you’d expect would write a story that allowed people to read between the lines.

Show quote history

I do remember it was clearly reported that it was rejection on a 'date'. I cannot remember when that rejection was reported though, I do think it was before the trial.

And News Ltd has a very good paywall so I can never get to read their articles unless a friend takes a physical pic of the article and shares it. They really have the worlds best paywall technology!

I have been very sad about discovering that the ABC is no longer reliable.

Snowypeaks · 14/08/2023 14:21

Jenny Watson with the support of the LGBA has made a compromise offer of putting on a trans/trans-inclusive dating night as well. This has been rejected. I really, really hope she takes legal action now. Sexual orientation discrimination, sex discrimination, restriction of two disadvantaged groups' lawful right to associate, attempts to ruin her business (I assume its a business) by badmouthing her all over the place, defamation. And loads of evidence helpfully provided.

It was an extraordinarily kind offer that she made. Why on earth she should take on a trans dating night as well, I don't know - the males can sort out their own social lives. And it sort of implies that their complaints have merit and she therefore needs to make provision for them, which doesn't sit well with me. But the outright rejection of the suggestion proves what the real motives of the manager and his nasty little WhatsApp group were.

Someone on another thread talked about the fact that some people don't understand the difference between fair and unfair discrimination and think that all discrimination is bad. Same in this case - using the pejorative "exclusionary" as if exclusion is necessarily evil. No, it's not. We don't all belong everywhere. The event is for lesbians.

If it did go to court, it might be a way of establishing in case law that a woman is an adult human female and sex means sex, not gender. Because that is what is at the heart of this - homogenderal vs homosexual.

Froodwithatowel · 14/08/2023 14:24

It proves though, yet again, it's not about 'but it's because we need access to those kinds of resources too', but about 'thou shalt not tolerate female only provisions to exist'. Even if this political position has everything it needs, three pools at Hampstead, three different choices of rape crisis services gagging to help you, it will not permit female people to escape their control and have anything to meet their needs. And if this means they have nothing, then serve them right for daring to exist without revolving around the wishes and feelings of a male.

It's indefensible, and the general public need to see it plainly.

GrabbyGabby · 14/08/2023 15:31

This is a crowdfunder i would donate to. Lesbians should absolutely have the right to organise as a single sex group, and refusing them service on the basis of them being homosexual is homophobic and is not permitted in law.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 14/08/2023 15:36

Jenny Watson with the support of the LGBA has made a compromise offer of putting on a trans/trans-inclusive dating night as well. This has been rejected

TRA really have no idea how badly they come across. Personally I’d rather have poked my eyes are out than try & help these stroppy entitled men but Jenny is clearly a better person than me but as usual TRA prove yet again that it’s not enough for there to also be trans inclusive events as well as women only events, women must have no women only events at all. We are allowed nothing for ourselves.

Datun · 14/08/2023 16:02

Froodwithatowel · 14/08/2023 14:24

It proves though, yet again, it's not about 'but it's because we need access to those kinds of resources too', but about 'thou shalt not tolerate female only provisions to exist'. Even if this political position has everything it needs, three pools at Hampstead, three different choices of rape crisis services gagging to help you, it will not permit female people to escape their control and have anything to meet their needs. And if this means they have nothing, then serve them right for daring to exist without revolving around the wishes and feelings of a male.

It's indefensible, and the general public need to see it plainly.

They really do.

TRAs have nowhere to hide if they start rejecting third spaces and trans supportive events.

It's the same with the Badenoch guidance over loos.

The general public need to see the misogyny at the heart of this ideology, and that women are to be used, or they will be punished.

fromorbit · 14/08/2023 16:35

The pub are in the same position that Cherry's theatre were, only their case much much weaker because of the way they acted. They have hosted the event for 4 years already! I think just a threat of legal action would mean Stonegate would have to talk to lawyers who would tell them they are legally totally in the wrong. They can't ban lesbians meeting because they are lesbian any more than a Christian fundamentalist pub landlord could.

Which means they would either go for doomed court case & terrible publicity or fold and apologise.

Hopefully Jenny and LGBA go down the legal route. Because if not lesbians in the UK will continue to have to meet in secret like it is 1900 or something.

Clymene · 14/08/2023 19:18

Theeyeballsinthesky · 14/08/2023 15:36

Jenny Watson with the support of the LGBA has made a compromise offer of putting on a trans/trans-inclusive dating night as well. This has been rejected

TRA really have no idea how badly they come across. Personally I’d rather have poked my eyes are out than try & help these stroppy entitled men but Jenny is clearly a better person than me but as usual TRA prove yet again that it’s not enough for there to also be trans inclusive events as well as women only events, women must have no women only events at all. We are allowed nothing for ourselves.

I wonder if they said no because they don't want to date each other? I've seen enough ads on dating apps from transwomen saying they only want to date biological women.

It feels a lot like it's about breaking down women's boundaries.

TheGreatATuin · 14/08/2023 19:37

Blondebutnotlegally · 13/08/2023 11:08

I even find this difficult as a bi woman. (Pre marriage) I would happily have sex with men and women, but TW and TW I don't find sexually attractive. This feels a lot like subconscious bias though and I do feel guilty

It makes sense. There's something deeply unattractive about someone with an ingrained belief in gender stereotypes to the point they make it their entire identity. Add the incredibly entitled attitude and its surprising anyone's interested at all.

xXJoy · 14/08/2023 19:51

Cheek of them logging on to dating sites and saying they will only date biological women. What??? And what sexual orientation is attracted to men dressed up as women? Does anybody find specifically that attractive?

CrazyArmadilloLady · 14/08/2023 19:55

Transwomen are, of course, the biggest terfs out there.

Snowypeaks · 14/08/2023 19:56

xXJoy · 14/08/2023 19:51

Cheek of them logging on to dating sites and saying they will only date biological women. What??? And what sexual orientation is attracted to men dressed up as women? Does anybody find specifically that attractive?

I have read that that is a niche interest for certain heterosexual men.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 14/08/2023 20:00

Snowypeaks · 14/08/2023 19:56

I have read that that is a niche interest for certain heterosexual men.

Show quote history

Certainly them dressing up as women (AGP).

But does anyone actually find being on the receiving end of it sexually attractive?

They do seem to love making life ridiculously difficult for themselves…..

Precipice · 14/08/2023 20:03

CrazyArmadilloLady · 14/08/2023 20:00

Certainly them dressing up as women (AGP).

But does anyone actually find being on the receiving end of it sexually attractive?

They do seem to love making life ridiculously difficult for themselves…..

Show quote history

Some people must...

Some actively sexually attracted by it, some merely neutral on it, so it's not a turn-off for them if their partner wants to do it.

But none of these people attracted to men dressing up 'femininely' are lesbians.

DuesToTheDirt · 14/08/2023 20:16

xXJoy · 14/08/2023 19:51

Cheek of them logging on to dating sites and saying they will only date biological women. What??? And what sexual orientation is attracted to men dressed up as women? Does anybody find specifically that attractive?

Actually, I think it's fine for them to do that, they can date who they want - as long as they are upfront about their own biology, not trying to trick potential partners, and as long as they show the same consideration to anyone else who wishes to restrict their dating pool by biological sex.

Snowypeaks · 14/08/2023 20:35

CrazyArmadilloLady · 14/08/2023 20:00

Certainly them dressing up as women (AGP).

But does anyone actually find being on the receiving end of it sexually attractive?

They do seem to love making life ridiculously difficult for themselves…..

Show quote history

No, it is a sexual interest in males who present as women, and who the heterosexual men know to be male. That's the thrill, apparently.

Snowypeaks · 14/08/2023 20:40

DuesToTheDirt · 14/08/2023 20:16

Actually, I think it's fine for them to do that, they can date who they want - as long as they are upfront about their own biology, not trying to trick potential partners, and as long as they show the same consideration to anyone else who wishes to restrict their dating pool by biological sex.

Show quote history

Well, I agree with xXJoy that it's a bit cheeky to say that you won't consider males claiming to be women, while expecting women to be fine with it. Or else. It's all of a piece with saying that vulvas/vaginas are a "genital preference" that lesbians are transphobic not to get over, while themselves not being prepared to get over the same genital preference and sleep with other males claiming to be women.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 14/08/2023 20:45

DuesToTheDirt · 14/08/2023 20:16

Actually, I think it's fine for them to do that, they can date who they want - as long as they are upfront about their own biology, not trying to trick potential partners, and as long as they show the same consideration to anyone else who wishes to restrict their dating pool by biological sex.

Show quote history

The entire point is that they don’t show the same consideration to anyone else who wishes to restrict their dating pool by biological sex.

They want to, but it’s unacceptable that anyone they date should also want to.

How is that ‘fine’?

DuesToTheDirt · 14/08/2023 20:49

CrazyArmadilloLady · 14/08/2023 20:45

The entire point is that they don’t show the same consideration to anyone else who wishes to restrict their dating pool by biological sex.

They want to, but it’s unacceptable that anyone they date should also want to.

How is that ‘fine’?

Show quote history

Like I said, it's fine as they are upfront about their own biology... and as long as they show the same consideration to anyone else.

I didn't say it's fine for them to claim to be lesbians and insist that lesbians date them.

CrazyArmadilloLady · 14/08/2023 20:54

But that’s exactly what they’re doing.

NonnyMouse1337 · 15/08/2023 01:07

Snowypeaks · 14/08/2023 14:21

Jenny Watson with the support of the LGBA has made a compromise offer of putting on a trans/trans-inclusive dating night as well. This has been rejected. I really, really hope she takes legal action now. Sexual orientation discrimination, sex discrimination, restriction of two disadvantaged groups' lawful right to associate, attempts to ruin her business (I assume its a business) by badmouthing her all over the place, defamation. And loads of evidence helpfully provided.

It was an extraordinarily kind offer that she made. Why on earth she should take on a trans dating night as well, I don't know - the males can sort out their own social lives. And it sort of implies that their complaints have merit and she therefore needs to make provision for them, which doesn't sit well with me. But the outright rejection of the suggestion proves what the real motives of the manager and his nasty little WhatsApp group were.

Someone on another thread talked about the fact that some people don't understand the difference between fair and unfair discrimination and think that all discrimination is bad. Same in this case - using the pejorative "exclusionary" as if exclusion is necessarily evil. No, it's not. We don't all belong everywhere. The event is for lesbians.

If it did go to court, it might be a way of establishing in case law that a woman is an adult human female and sex means sex, not gender. Because that is what is at the heart of this - homogenderal vs homosexual.

Gender zealots will never allow female-only spaces and services to exist alongside 'trans inclusive' ones because they KNOW the vast majority of women will choose the female-only option if given a free choice.

They love to pretend its only a 'handful of bigots' and that lots of lesbians love 'queer' spaces and events. If they were SO confident that most lesbians enjoyed being around these kinds of males, they wouldn't care if someone set up a female-only event, because it would fizzle out fairly quickly. But they KNOW lesbians would flock to these events if they were available and publicised, and based on what Jenny Watson said, her events were very popular. Their 'queer' and 'trans inclusive' spaces and events would dwindle to nothing without being propped up by an iron fist. They HAVE to remove any female-only options to maintain the lie that women enjoy any of this. They have to FORCE women to associate with these males because otherwise the overwhelming majority would not willingly do so. Smile

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