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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“If you see a TERF, punch them in the fucking face!” Speech at Trans Pride London 8 July 2023

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2023 00:46

Sarah Jane Baker, on the Trans Pride stage, saying

“If you see a TERF, punch them in the fucking face!”

to a cheering crowd :)

https://twitter.com/unpopulargenz/status/1677790606561628160

NB to MNHQ the video shows this being said. It is not just an allegation being shared.

OP posts:
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TheBiologyStupid · 09/07/2023 01:09

Holy shit! Unbelievable.

OhcantthInkofaname · 09/07/2023 01:11

And if they hit back?

Tutu365 · 09/07/2023 01:13

Wow 😳

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/07/2023 01:14

Incitement to violence, I assume they had their collar felt.

No?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:16

He'd be going straight back to prison if they took it seriously. I can't believe this doesn't breach his licence conditions.

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2023 01:16

JOIN SARAH JANE BAKER FOR MP AND MAKE BRITAIN A NICER, SAFER, AND FRIENDLIER PLACE FOR US ALL TO LIVE IN

Our mission is to inspire and promote impactful solutions to some of the most critical issues we face through the power of civic engagement. Join our community of activists and allies as we work towards a better and more just world.

https://sarah-jane-baker.com/

Makes you wonder what impactful solutions might actually be.

If it wasn't so horrendous you would think it was some old Carry On farce.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:19

PS he may well turn up on the thread, I'm pretty sure he has been here before.

This is a violent criminal, a convicted kidnapper and torturer.

Toseland · 09/07/2023 01:19

Wow, where was it - Trafalgar Square? Surely there were police around?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:23

Yes.I imagine there would have been police galore to protect the vulnerable trans people.

forgotmyusername1 · 09/07/2023 01:30

Imagine what response there would be if a gender critical stood on stage saying 'if you see a transwoman knee him in the balls'

WeAreOnTheRoadToNowhere · 09/07/2023 01:33

Transpride?
Can you imagine the trans outcry if there was a guy pride?

thirdfiddle · 09/07/2023 01:48

Just out of interest, were there hordes of feminists with noise making devices trying to drown out the speakers? Did feminists wearing black masks try to occupy the space they were due to speak in? Did police have to defend a line against angry women?
And if not can we stop with the "both sides".

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:51

Yes, it's very telling, isn't it.

PatatiPatatras · 09/07/2023 02:23

LGBwithT pride - yay
JustT pride - yay,
lgb pride - nay

... and if you advocate for just lgb you get punched on justT day by the people targeting a friendlier world...

Okay.

NitroNine · 09/07/2023 04:20

The way my brain works [or does not?] combined with the “TWAW - no debate!” means I cannot help but similarly interpret all the things. So to those who argue TWA[C]M: Trans Pride Is Shame; Trans Joy Is Despair; & trans people [in the Global North] are overwhelmingly a protected, privileged & powerful class - not one at risk of genocide.

As PPs have pointed out, trans people - as they of course should! - enjoy the freedom to assemble en masse with the support & protection of the state & its agents. Groups the state wishes to extinguish are not granted that - & members of such groups cannot casually publicly threaten violence. Women’s “opposition” takes the form of individuals holding signs about their rights. That will of course get them assaulted. In fairness, you can have been at the Stonewall Riots & helped start Pride itself but if you now hold a sign about women’s rights in the wrong place you’ll get battered, I don’t want anyone to think I’m suggesting this is purely misogyny &/or VAWG.

TRAs’ shameless harassment & intimidation of women seeking to gather & speak about things like FGM, experiences of life in prison/as a refugee/as an asylum seeker, access to abortion, & umpteen other topics going unpunished has absolutely emboldened them. Police services across the UK (with, perhaps, the exception of PSNI) have allowed women to be: barred from entering venues they’ve hired; subjected to mobs beating on the windows of rooms in which they’re assembled; assaulted in a range of ways (including racially aggravated assault); & on top of that have made a holy show of themselves over ribbons & stickers while being slow to move on explicit threats to women.

Incitement hasn’t been an offence in for about 15 years - one can now be charged with encouraging &/or assisting others in criminal acts, whether or not they take place. It requires that the person being charged believed that the offence would be committed. Baker heard that roar of approval & made no attempt to ensure it was understood they were not in earnest/violence is not acceptable/it’s important to be be the better person [& not punch women]; so that test is met. As for what the potential outcome would be; the sentencing is matched to the offence the individual encouraged. The CPS can also charge an individual with encouraging multiple offences. Given it’s so well-known that a single punch can kill, I wonder if, given the size of that enthusiastically cheering crowd, the CPS could go for encouraging manslaughter as well as “just” encouraging assault. (NB NAL/PO so one may need to check my work there.)

Will be very interesting to see what happens next: the Met have had the video evidence sent to them multiple times on Twitter & hopefully people have used the right reporting mechanism (111 online form) too to ensure they act on the reports. Will TRAs try to brush it all under the carpet? Will they try to claim it’s all transphobia; or will Baker find out that apparently they’re not really trans because no trans person would advocate such violence; will it be a return to prison for breaching licence conditions; will there be an indictment for encouraging - & if so, what? Moreover, would a Hate Crime enhancement be sought, given “TERF” has been established, legally, to be a slur used against holders of a protected belief (who are of course free to use it as an act of reclamation eg JK Rowling’s “Merry TERFmas x” tweet).

The rates of VAWG in the UK are dreadful. Truly shameful. For someone who claims to be a woman to advocate for more of it is disgusting. Really hope that the police & CPS will finally act to stem this particular source of it.

PurpleGreenandWhiteAreTheNewPrimaryColours · 09/07/2023 05:18

This is getting insane now. What's the betting this will be brushed under the carpet in Sadiq's London.

Yet over in W Yorkshire a lady in her 70s gets a visit from the police because a sign about male violence and transwomem retaining male violence patterns is left outside .

Dystopian

shebathequeenof · 09/07/2023 05:20

Why is this man not in broadmoor?

Backstreets · 09/07/2023 06:12

Baker the violent criminal? That tracks. Terrifying bloke.

NecessaryScene · 09/07/2023 07:12

Incitement to violence isn't always the easiest thing to secure a conviction on, what with freedom of speech concerns. But here we're talking basic license terms.

No need to secure conviction here - he's already convicted, and only out on license.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03626/

Murder carries a mandatory life sentence. This can, but rarely does, mean that the offender will spend the rest of his natural life in prison. An offender given a mandatory life sentence who is released from prison will remain on licence for the rest of his or her life.

So the question is, at what point will the probation authorities draw the line. Generally, it's pretty vague - there are hard lines on re-offending, but otherwise
"be of good behaviour and not behave in a way which undermines the purpose of the licence period".

Presumably he thinks that's vague enough that his trans shield protects him - anyone making the decision will be able to exercise enough discretion to let anything slide, as Family Guy's "oh you're transgender - in that case do whatever you want all of the time" rule.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/07/2023 07:14

Usually the threats to women are made when they're trying to silence women and stop us from meeting. So it's interesting to see the usual behavioural incontinence on display at a trans pride march with VAWG openly celebrated from the platform. I recall that Barker was a lead figure in the demonstration outside the inaugural meeting of the Lesbian Project.

If you haven't seen this, the event was filmed by an initially unaware youtuber who often follows the police, recording their actions. He wandered cluelessly into the mob trying to disrupt the meeting and his recording of it is a gem!

Out Of Control Trans Protest! TLA Takes On Entire Protest! Police Get Owned #fail #pinac #metpolice

Hi GuysI really don't know where to start with this one. To say It was crazy just doesn't quite cut it.I happened to come across a trans protest in the form ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMpy8VDBJXQ

Florissante · 09/07/2023 07:40

Nothing will happen to the convicted murderer Baker because he is of the protected group.

Signalbox · 09/07/2023 08:36

And rather worryingly the crowd cheers.

Signalbox · 09/07/2023 08:39

How seamlessly has this man become an influential person in trans politics. I wonder when he goes back into prison will it be into the female estate? Was he housed previously with women?

meowgender · 09/07/2023 08:49

This is the man who spent 30 years in prison for kidnapping and torturing his stepmother's brother and trying to murder another prisoner? I see the rehabilitation went well then 🤔

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