LOJ and monkeypox. Knows what a man is

[123Callie]

So LOJ has finally decided that men who have sex with men ARE more at risk of contracting monkeypox after all. And he wants them to know this so that they can all go and get vaccinated. Strangely, he is not using inclusive language at all. He only mentions men. There are transwomen at risk in exactly the same way but no mention of the women who sleep with men who sleep with men. Now that men are affected he is well aware that clear language is necessary for health campaigns.

Also, on another note, he doesn’t want men to stop having sex with multiple strangers. That’s fine despite the known risks. Can’t expect a man to take responsibility for his own health over servicing his raging libido.

I do know trans men who are gay.

Youre assumptions about their sex lives are wrong. Entirely wrong.

Maybe tell the NHS, TeaKlaxon:

'I’ve had it confirmed by the NHS England Vaccination and Screening Service that trans people who sleep with men ARE included under the current Monkeypox vaccination programme - as long as you meet the same criteria.'

twitter.com/PositiveLad/status/1551181435251445760?cxt=HHwWgMC-5f_S84YrAAAA

Press release:
Men who identify as gay men are at increased risk of monkey pox. Equally men who have sex with men (who may not be men). Don’t forget, not all men have penises and not all penises are male. (Don’t mention transwomen, it’s just not worth it.) Transwomen are not male even though some have a female penis so do not classify as men who have sex with men even though some are men who have sex with men. (Now you’re for it.) Some steam rooms identify as saunas. STEAM ROOM/SAUNA IDENTITIES ARE VALID. /end

And maybe tell the transwomen like this one who say different:

'Owen you are excluding trans women with ALL of the same risk factors, including sexual community, as MSM. WE died during the AIDS crisis too, and it fucking hurts to see that forgotten.'

twitter.com/TheeBellwether/status/1551891587306749954?cxt=HHwWhICw9aTLtokrAAAA

My assumptions about their biology is correct..because they are not assumptions, they are facts.

A female bodied, genetically female person is a woman, and not a man. A transman is a woman, in the same way as a transwoman is a man.

These are facts , not opinions

Thanks for clarification.

Incidentally, of course a bunch of straight people are responding to a health crisis affecting mainly gay people by making it all about their own bigotry.

It really is just the 1980s all over again. Absolutely disgusting.

How do you know our sexuality?

'a bunch of straight people' - are we, aye?

'Bunch of straight people'? Are you referring to the people on this thread? How do you know who is straight or gay or bi? That's just silly.

You’re not really interested in helping the people at risk are you tea? You’re so tripping over yourself with your bizarre and meaningless descriptions that you can’t be bothered to focus on the actual people that need to get the message. So typical of tedious transactivists. The facts can’t be allowed to get in the way of the bullshit.

Teaklaxon is only here to tell us we're bigots.

Surely you could be out there spreading the word that men who are very manly and may or may not have penises who have sex with other men who are definitely manly whatever the status of their penises should be seeking a vaccine?

For anyone reading who is concerned they may be at risk , the tweet I linked to above had info on risk factors. As does this:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/monkeypox-vaccination-resources/protecting-you-from-monkeypox-information-on-the-smallpox-vaccination

'UKHSA currently recommends that MVA is offered to:

healthcare workers who are caring for and who are due to start caring for a patient with confirmed monkeypox (2 doses are normally required)

gay, bisexual and other men who have sex with men. Your clinician will advise vaccination for you if you have multiple partners, participate in group sex or attend ‘sex on premises’ venues (one dose now – a second dose may be advised later at your sexual health clinic)

people who have already had close contact with a patient with confirmed monkeypox. Vaccination with a single dose of vaccine should be offered as soon as possible (ideally within 4 days but sometimes up to 14 days)'

I’m not the one who started a thread which is entirely focused on trying to use a health crisis affecting gay people as a weird gotcha against Owen Jones. For folk on this thread monkeypox has no relevance other than how they can get one over on someone who supports trans rights.

As I say, no different to the 1980s where the only relevance of HIV to most people was the way in which it could further their bigotry. It was disgusting then and it’s disgusting now.

Interesting, @ScaredAdopter. You suggest that this argument is false:

'Its like saying that men have higher rates of suicide, all men have penises* therefore having a penis is a risk factor for suicide'

So is the opposite argument correct then:

'Men have higher rates of suicide, not all men have penises, so having a penis is not a risk factor for suicide'

That would suggest that it's the identity that is the correct risk factor, so identifying as a woman confers some advantages regarding suicide rates?

And conversely, if you identify as a man you risk factor is in the higher range?

We should compile and compare suicide stats by gender identity?

Sorry for so many questions, just trying to understand your argument.

Ahh so once evidence is given that transwomen are upset about being left out by OJ, you realize you are in fact wrong, only you can't actually be a grown up and admit that, you can only resort to rudeness and ignorance.
It's just what I've come to expect from your side.

It is good to know that transwomen who have sex with other transwomen are safe from this virus at least.

All thanks to teaklaxon for putting their minds at rest that they have nothing to fret about.

I wouldn't want this TeaKlaxon person in charge of health advice because they are extremely ignorant. Transwomen - all over the world btw- more often sleep with men than women and often are prostitutes engaging in high-risk behaviour. Excluding them from the messaging is hypocrisy. The gay transman is a new fangled creation and highly unlikely to be in demand for sauna orgies, even as bottoms.

For folk on this thread monkeypox has no relevance other than how they can get one over on someone who supports trans rights.

What a horrible thing to say. Given that I have many dear friends who are gay men, I want to understand what the risks are and am quite honestly struggling - I can't quite work out what the risks actually are, and have an overwhelming sense that everyone is scared to spell it all out clearly for fear of offense. Which is, as I'm sure you'd agree, not effective health communication.

That’s precisely the message Owen Jones has been spreading and the result is a bunch of mumsnetters sneering at him.

Also way to miss the point with blithe comments about ‘seeking’ the vaccine. Because yet again gay people are being failed by a health system, it is difficult to get the vaccine. Avoidable shortages mean that most vaccinations are available by invitation only. Which means they are offered only to people known to eg sexual health clinics. That excludes the most marginalised or those new to an area etc. And even for those who are know the wait is long. Walk ins started to be available over the weekend but not advertised, dependent on knowing where to look for info, and with queues of up to four hours long - and only in London.

Gay men seeking the vaccine isn’t the issue - gay men finding it is. But of course no one on here thinks that is as important an issue as whether there’s a gotcha moment for Owen Jones.

Tea, you are doing god's work here. Thank you.

Every time I think, maybe I don't quite understand there's always a full explanation as to why white is black which convinces me that white is actually white, amen.

The group of men having sex with men does not imply the involvement of penis. Penis be saved, amen. I'm fully educated.

Ach, whatever you say, TeaKlaxon. Whatever you say.

@TeaKlaxon you said 'Compared to the number of gay sex venues, there are extremely few straight sex venues'

Are you suggesting that a much larger number of sex venues are for use by gay men, a small percentage of a population, than for the vast numbers of straight men?

Are you suggesting that a majority of sex venues are for gay men, is that right?

My argument was that having a penis is not why men are at higher risk of suicide. Having a penis is not why boys do worse in school. Having a penis is not why gay men are at higher risk of monkeypox. Those claiming it is are just wrong and ignorant.