LOJ and monkeypox. Knows what a man is

[123Callie]

So LOJ has finally decided that men who have sex with men ARE more at risk of contracting monkeypox after all. And he wants them to know this so that they can all go and get vaccinated. Strangely, he is not using inclusive language at all. He only mentions men. There are transwomen at risk in exactly the same way but no mention of the women who sleep with men who sleep with men. Now that men are affected he is well aware that clear language is necessary for health campaigns.

Also, on another note, he doesn’t want men to stop having sex with multiple strangers. That’s fine despite the known risks. Can’t expect a man to take responsibility for his own health over servicing his raging libido.

Sorry I’m genuinely lost as to your point here. Obviously (obvious to me anyway, I’m aware others disagree) all gay men have penises. That’s not what’s causing the pox risk though, which is why most men (also all with penises) aren’t getting it at the same rate. So no, penises are not a risk factor just a correlation.

It's definitely OUT THERE in the gay community. It'll get to the heterosexual community too but I was reading this guy's account of his timeline earlier, with his face in the article he said I had sex with three men the weekend of 2nd July but then I also had sex with two men the Wednesday before that so when I came down with symptoms on the 15th I wasn't sure who I'd got it from and who I'd given it to because I'd slept with a couple more men after the first weekend in July and getting first symptoms. Holy God.
I have never judged anybody for having casual sex but I had forgotten that gay men can pack in a lot of sex.

Well not all of them do, no.

But the point is that the folk thinking they’re being really clever by saying OJ should have referred to ‘penis havers’ are both really boring and really wrong.

@PomegranateOfPersephone LOVE "promiscuous penis havers" - they cause a lot of issues

Not all gay men have a penis? Well I suppose there may be the odd one who had an unfortunate accident or extreme penile cancer etc, but are you saying that as a class, not all gay men have penises?

Can you explain?

How so?

If a transwoman is having sex with gay men then the risk for said transwoman will be exactly the same as it would be for any gay man.

Really? Could you elaborate on which gay men don't have a penis and how they are at higher risk of contracting monkey pox.

God, he's such a ridiculous little fart. Why does he have such a platform?

This really is ridiculous nonsense.

Its like saying that men have higher rates of suicide, all men have penises* therefore having a penis is a risk factor for suicide.

Or boys have poorer educational outcomes, all boys have penises, therefore having a penis is a risk factor for poor educational outcomes.

It is a nonsense because it suggests a causative effect that doesn’t exist.

*Of course that argument would also incorrectly deny that some trans men and boys are men and boys.

A gay trans man who has not had bottom surgery is an example of a gay man without a penis.

He would be at the same risk of contracting monkeypox as any other gay man engaging in the same behaviour, so it would depend for example on whether he frequents saunas and dark rooms, uses hook up sites etc.

Whether he has a penis or not is irrelevant to his risk level.

But the 'penis havers' quote is to be inclusive of transwomen who OJ did not consider when giving his health advice. Won't someone please think of the transwomrn who may be merrily engaging in casual sex.

What exactly is a gay trans man?

It’s not that difficult to comprehend…

A trans man who is gay.

It's absurd to try claiming that a vagina-haver is equally at risk of monkey pox if they claim to be a gay man, but a penis-haver who has sex with men is magically immune if they claim to be a woman.

It's also absurd to try claiming that gay men on the gay scene are actually having sex with vagina-havers in these saunas and venues.
They aren't! Have you spoken to gay men recently? Seen their comments about trans men?

I wish these people would hear themselves for two seconds.

Monkey pox is affecting penis havers who have sex with penis havers at an alarming rate. That's the fact of the matter. These people are men.

That’s just the point. Trans women don’t necessarily have the same risk factors as gay men.

OJ is being perfectly accurate to talk about the higher rate of risk specifically for men who have sex with men. That higher rate of risk does not necessarily apply to trans women.

This is a very confusing thread. Clearly to get monkey pox you need to have close contact with someone who has it.

At present, most people who have it are, I understand, men who have sex with men.

So frequenting venues where men who have sex with men are overly represented would increase your risk.

I can’t tell from information on this thread whether some close contact is worse than other close contact for passing the virus on. Eg it is my understanding that if a man and a woman both had sex with a man who was HIV positive, the man would be at greater risk of catching the virus than the woman. Is that the same with monkey pox?

So I can’t tell whether the messaging should be ‘if you go to these type of venues then you are at greater risk’ or ‘if you have sex in this way you are at greater risk’ or both, or something else.

Sorry to break it to you but gay trans men have sex. You’re starting from a flawed assumption that they don’t.

Also assuming trans women have sex with gay men - which is not the case. Straight trans women have sex with straight or bi men, not gay men. Gay trans women have sex with women.

Ah, because some tranwoman have sex with women? Yes. Sure. But transwomen who have sex with men are not going to be happy about being called MSM, are they?

This is a wonderful illustration of the bloody mess we are in with regards to the endless confusions, deliberately stirred, by the 'genderist' movement.

A gay trans man who has not had bottom surgery is an example of a gay man without a penis

No. That would be a woman. With a vagina.

There are very few men having sex with people with vaginas you know. Because gay men are men who are attracted to men, not women.

Your "gay trans man" is not at all at the same risk as gay men, because they are not frequenting the same places or engaging in sex with gay men.

'Also assuming trans women have sex with gay men - which is not the case. Straight trans women have sex with straight or bi men, not gay men. Gay trans women have sex with women.'

See, you can say that, and is that actually going to help transwomen, or is it just going to confuse matters?

Transwomen do have sex with gay men, sorry to break that to you.

Thank you for replying. So transwomen do not tend to frequent gay clubs, hook ups, saunas etc. Is this why they are not high risk?

Wow. how many kinds of wrong can you be in one post? You have tied yourself up in so many knots you don't know what you're saying any more

This is just wrong, and suggests you don’t actually know any trans men who are gay.

Not in the same numbers, no.

The sex partner profile of trans women is simply different than of gay men.

I don't know any, and neither do you. A person with a vagina who has sex with men is a heterosexual woman. Because a person with a vagina can only be a woman, and not a man.

I know a LOT of gay men. They have little in common as a group, but the unifying factor is No Vaginas.