LOJ and monkeypox. Knows what a man is

[123Callie]

So LOJ has finally decided that men who have sex with men ARE more at risk of contracting monkeypox after all. And he wants them to know this so that they can all go and get vaccinated. Strangely, he is not using inclusive language at all. He only mentions men. There are transwomen at risk in exactly the same way but no mention of the women who sleep with men who sleep with men. Now that men are affected he is well aware that clear language is necessary for health campaigns.

Also, on another note, he doesn’t want men to stop having sex with multiple strangers. That’s fine despite the known risks. Can’t expect a man to take responsibility for his own health over servicing his raging libido.

Sure individual sexuality is hugely varied. There are allsorts of preferences and kinks. Sexuality is an orientation towards the opposite sex though, not a preference for people who present as a certain gender.

Yes some trans men pass very well but very few and then only because they have manipulated their bodies endocrinologically and surgically to the extreme. They are still female and they are still not going to appeal to gay men (as a group).

People who are attracted to both sexes but only a specific "gender", well I'm utterly delighted for them, long may they come.

They are however not gay, unless they are exclusively attracted to people of the same sex (whatever their gender identity is) since that is the mother flippin definition of gay.

A male and a female in a sexual relationship are in a heterosexual coupling . I know that's really inconvenient for you. But it's reality.

You can't change the definition of words unilaterally.

Firstly, a trans man is not a girl. Secondly even if you think he is, most people do not perceive trans men as girls (or women) since most people have no way of knowing that most trans men are trans unless it’s disclosed.

The vagina is a bit of a giveaway isn't it?

And some people are gay and open to sex and relationships with trans people of the same gender. Perhaps you should get over that?

There are cis gay men in relationships with trans men right now
They're not gay men then, they’re straight or bi.
folk on here keep on with this idea that trans men are straight women (they're not)
If they’re having sex with men then yes they are.

Gay and lesbian has a specific meaning. At best these people are bisexuals. But gay or lesbian they are not.

Let’s unpack this.

I was responding to a poster who claimed that if a man was dating a trans man, no one would give him flak for being gay because he was actually just dating a girl.

I disagreed because (a) trans men aren’t girls and (b) most people who might give him flak won’t necessarily know that his partner is trans.

Now leaving aside that some trans men don’t have vaginas, what part of that situation leads you to think that random potential homophobes inspect the genitals of victims of their homophobia?

But it’s not genderal attraction is it? It’s sexual attraction

homosexual people have been subject to terrible oppression

I think they deserve a word to describe themselves without people trying to shoehorn straight people in there too

Yes indeed, I think I accepted that our hypothetical straight couple, where the women has subjected herself to some radical surgery and drug treatment may well, sadly, find that they experience abuse which is rooted in homophobia

Sorry but you don’t get to define other peoples sexualities. Including mine, by the way, as a gay person who would date a trans person.

I am gay. Not bisexual. I am attracted to women. That could include trans women - like all people it depends on their looks, personality and sexual compatibility - and you don’t get to redefine my sexuality for me.

I think gay people deserve not to have other people telling them that they know their sexuality better than they do themselves.

At which point the sexuality has no meaning, it's a useless set of terms unless it describes something fairly objective about who you are actually sexually interested in.

What you are describing is "people I'd like to have sex with" and giving it a name.

It’s not a straight couple.

But you should address your response to the idiot who thinks that won’t be a problem because the homophobes will know the trans man is assigned female at birth because they will see their vagina!

right you are

in which case, please don't define mine

I am heterosexual. I am a woman who is only attracted to men. I would never want to have sex with a trans man as she is a woman

we appear to have reached an impasse?

It is quite amusing that someone who self identifies as gay is happy with either penis or vagina, and gets upset when people call them bisexual and 'redefines' their sexuality, after redefining the sexuality of actual gay and lesbian people.

One might almost say hypocritical.

Stop doing it then

Sorry but you don’t get to define other peoples sexualities

that is exactly what you and other TRAs do - you try to change the definition of sexualities to fit your ideology.
we all know ( including you) that gay men are men who are attracted to other men, and lesbians are women attracted to other women.
We all know (including you) that TWANW, they are men who wish they were women, or would like to be treated as they think women are treated, or like to dress and act in a stereotypically womanly fashion. TMANM, they are women who wish they were men … etc.
it’s you who is trying to define other people sexuality. The definitions of women, men, gay and lesbian has been around forever - it’s TRAs trying to redefine them.

A transman who is attracted to men is a straight woman. No debate.

… even is she has blue hair!

Sorry but you don’t get to define other peoples sexualities

The irony!

Exactly 😂. Breathtakingly self absorbed.

Personally, I think it would be reasonable to say that you could from time to get a hetero or homosexual person who might end up attracted to a trans person who presents as the sex that person is usually attracted to, especially if they do it very convincingly. I have for example heard of gay men who tend to go for slim, younger male partners being attracted to transmen.

Essentially, the sexual attraction is to a person they are perceiving as the sex they are attracted to. Our brains aren't wired to understand the idea of a "trans" sex or gender. (Which practically speaking is why many people are also not attracted to trans people who are actually members of the sex they are normally attracted to.)

But it would still be, in the case of say a transman and a gay male, a heyerosexual relationship.

The idea of being "open" to potential relationships with a group is pretty meaningless. Large numbers of people, who see themselves as hetero or homosexual, if next week they were really attracted to someone of the "wrong" sex, would probably be open to dating said person. Some people might avoid dating said person simply because it interfered with their sexual identity, but plenty wouldn't. The issue is it's not a terribly common turn of events.

Entirely reasonable. Not a reason, to redefine same sex attraction as same gender attraction (as some ( not you) on this thread are attempting to do) and not a reason to call people who could never find the opposite sex attractive bigoted.

I strongly suspect that most people who need to redefine same sex attraction as same gender attraction have a vested interest for gender validation reasons.

Not really. You do you.

But there are gay men who have sex and relationships with trans men. That is just a fact.

There are trans men who engage in the same sort of sexual behaviours as some gay men - like saunas, cruising, hookup apps etc.

No impasse at all.

mmm

and those relationships between men and trans men are heterosexual

what with the partners each being of a different sex

Fuck me. We have spent the guts of rhe last few years hiding indoors and wearing masks to protect the community at large from a virus.

Lord forbid that gay men should be asked to put their cocks away until the vaccine programme can take hold. I get the historical sensitivities but this is not just a decision between 2 consenting men, this has consequences for an NHS already at breaking point and for the inevitable spread into the unsuspecting female partners of men who go cruising. A bit of sexual restraint for a short period of time really doesnt seem like such a big sacrifice compared to what we have all done over the pandemic.