Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

@BenCoopersSupportWren Preens!!! Do i get a name badge? If so my pronouns are boiled/boiled.

After all I am not a girl beetle and I am not a boy beetle. I am a boiled beetle! (And have now outed myself to my sister if she's reading!)

The dinos can be subtle but present for every mumsnetter.

Im thinking a child playing with Dino toy, Dino lunch box for another being taken to school while mum listens in, maybe a Dino broach or scarf on a woman working on one laptop with the other open to watch proceedings, food shopping with a Dino print bag…. You get the picture.

@SpindleInTheWind it could be a while he's just trying to get the cat tree to fit in his suitcase.

(Allow for dramatic license)

SCENE1

Opening montage

EXT. Residential street Uk

*bright sunshine and blue sky. A young black girl of about 8 runs down the street, school bag on her shoulders, past houses to the front door of a home which she enters. Music plays.

CUTS To

INT. court room

*a black woman is giving evidence in a tribunal. It's the child, grown up. We don't here her words, but we see her passion. Music rises.

CUTS TO

EXT. Uni graduation

*the same woman at 22, graduating her degree with her peers. Another happy day. Music continues

CUTS TO

INT. Court room.

*the judge presiding is speaking to the court. The woman watches on. music rises

CUTS TO

EXT. Outside Old Bailey

*the woman approaches then enters the building. She is wearing her robes and wig. She's a success.

CUTS TO

INT. Courtroom close up of her face

*slow zoom right in to tight close up of her look of fierce determination

CUTs TO

TITLES - "ALLISON"

(Just a whole script to go after that)

Spindle, while I smile a lot while reading these threads I rarely laugh out loud, and that genuinely made me snort... 😀

If their position wasn’t ideological but pragmatic (because they assumed a risk of reputational damage that wasn’t actually there), would she still win?

I'm not sure it's exactly the same, because reputational damage may be different, but my understanding is that discrimination to appease your client base is still illegal. If they say they'd rather not have a Muslim as a client manager, and you (as it were) pass it on, you are still liable for the discrimination. So I assume, and hope, that if you're appeasing Twitter TRA fuckwits the same principle still holds.

@MsMarvellous that's given me shivers. I suddenly feel really tearful!

Wonderful work keep it up!

(Sorry, composing this at speed before toddler's bedtime and "for e.g." disappeared - in case the Muslim example seemed a bit random...)

Here you go - use responsibly:
twitter.com/DagothUrine/status/1528028479865950209

@TheBiologyStupid whilst I love it the cat has vetoed me purchasing one of them.

Plus as he rightly pointed out it doesn't come in XXXL size, and well...He's not exactly petite!

‘So I assume, and hope, that if you're appeasing Twitter TRA fuckwits the same principle still holds.’

Good.

DH and I each have a cat on our lap ATM. They are itching for a fight. I have made them both watch the TikTok.

I fear that a version of that contraption suitable for our two would have to be made of chainmail!

Thanks ickky - threads coming faster than in The Dragons of Pern!

Fistbump 👊@TheBiologyStupid for the obscure reference. I got it. 😉

That's me finally caught up.

Bloody hell.

I can't scroll back through 14 odd threads so if this has already been suggested, apologies. But I can't see past Viola Davies as AB in the film/Netflix drama. I hope she's good at accents.

I do wonder if Ben C QC will go near the Jess Bradley/TELI link. I mean, MB was so horrified by AB's tweets/actions (in being part of LGBA set up) she allegedly appears to have gone to extraordinary lengths to deal with that. If AB's measured words cause such conniptions, I'd imagine JB's alleged 'bus stop/office' behaviour must have been verging on devastating.

I have a a day off tomorrow for time off in lieu. I am sitting on my hands resisting the urget to dial into the tribunal. My patio won't wash itself after all.......

@SunnyLobelia I'm sure it's supposed to rain heavily tomorrow. Best stay in your pjs and dial into the tribunal instead!

If it rains maybe the patio will wash itself

@SunnyLobelia plus its the main attraction MB. You'd be mad to miss it

You can do angry jet washing in the 5 minute breaks. Honestly, you'll be so furious it'll take a fraction of the usual time.

(And I could give it a quick sweep in the 5 minute breaks or if DdM is recalled as a witness).

oooh cross post!

Thanks @ickky

I thought I was missing MB because of a long day in the office today but I've got a bit of open time tomorrow morning so hopefully I'll not miss all of it after all.

Ok so tomorrow looks to be the most interesting day yet, starting at 9am, and, so, of course I have a job interview tomorrow at 9.30am for a job I reeeeeeealllllllly want, that would be an awesome step in my career, a chance to hire and build my own team, and a hefty pay rise. It is ridiculous that I would even consider cancelling it to tune in to this. 😂

I will not cancel of course. I will, instead, nail the interview, get the job and use the opportunity to hire in a way which respects and honours the women who fight so bloody hard for us. And be back in time to catch the second half (football reference there for the uninitiated).

I could however do with some kind of support animal/vegetable/mineral to take in with me. Suggestions welcome.

I’m going to miss BC, AH, IO, RMW, JR, when this is over. I admit it: I do wave.

‘I could however do with some kind of support animal/vegetable/mineral to take in with me. Suggestions welcome.’

Aim high. Take in a support dragon fruit.

This is all taking me back to a couple of years ago, when remote hearings were rather in their infancy. Just before the first lockdown, the joint owners of the football team that I support had a massive falling out over social media, and this led to a couple of separate court cases a few months later. One of these was because one of the owners had illegally amended the Companies House info for the club's parent company, and the other was because of a dispute over a proposed sale to an associate of the other owner's former solicitor.

A fair number of fans connected to watch, which they clearly hadn't been expecting, and the level of interest actually got a mention in at least one of the judgments. On one of the days they had to kick everybody out because the judge and one of the barristers couldn't get in to the session because so many people were connected. I can't remember if anyone asked for permission to livetweet the hearing or just went ahead and did it anyway, and there were similar reaction threads to this on the main fan forums, with the occasional plea of "what did they just say??!" when a flurry of "ooh good question" comments popped up. There weren't any issues with shambolic bundles, but I think that was because we didn't have access to the bundles at all.

For those of you worried about camera microphone failures, it could be worse. At the start of the the first hearing, someone not only had his camera on, but unfortunately also had his shirt off, so had to be told by the Clerk of the Court to go and put one on. Which of course led to many forum comments along the lines of "Who is Topless Man?". And at the end of one of the other sessions someone interjected "CF is a c##t" - CF being the previously mentioned solicitor, who'd turned into something of a hate figure amongst the fans for reasons I won't bore you with here.

So while the technical running of the case still isn't perfect, it sounds like they have learnt from some of the earlier issues around remote hearings.