Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 3

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Back to Allison if there's time I think.

That document has been publicly available for more than a year and as I recall the restrictive order made by EJ was in respect of the non-downloadable bundle as a whole so it would seem very strange to me if linking to the document is now not permitted Pluvia.

Re the room full of undeclared people - one thing is clear. If there is any attempt to portray this witness as emotionally vulnerable to BC's questions, then it won't fly. BC can argue that he wanted the private case management session to ensure that any disability needs could be taken into account.

That document looks very familiar. Hasn’t it been quoted on here before? I seem to remember the use of “yourselves” throughout.

The judge is such a patient woman, isn't she?

Just misgendered KM, though.

It may well have been. It's in the public domain and has been for a while.

Clicking on the text that says 'click here' does nothing. It's text in an email. I can try and figure out the URL from the email address or use Skype I guess, but I'd rather not - never mind!

Has the dog appeared on camera yet? I desperately want to know more about the dog. Breed. Colour. Name. Gender identity. Is it neutered and does it still identify as the sex assigned at birth before the trip to the vet. Does it go in to work with KM every day?

RMW has reported JG just misgendered KM. Ms rather than Mr. And again...

It just seems an amazing lack of integrity to my lay eyes and ears. It appears to be the m.o in almost everything they say and do - not an isolated or credible 'mistake' or two. Shifty is the word some might use.

I wonder if the person who shifted when the camera showed them moved to be just out of view - in a blind spot.

The email offers you the option to click on web browser. You click on that and you're into the signing up process.

Pluvia, you must have a different email. Sometimes when you copy or forward text in an email, any links get stripped out so I'm assuming that's what happened. But presumably that is just supposed to have a URL embedded in the text, so I'm wondering what the URL is? It's a bit of a moot point now as have to get on a train soon...

I'm also remembering the American court case at the start of lockdown when people were still getting used to zoom court cases and one of the lawyers couldn't disable the cat mode that ?his child had set. His panicked voice "I'm not a cat" ....

Could that explain the dog?

So according to KM, you self-identify your sex, not your gender. Your sex becomes the gender with which you identify.

"What they feel their sex is"

Re: the film. I'm thinking Armando Iannucci would handle it well. Working title could be 'The Death of Stonewall'.

Did we decide who would play BC? No idea what KM looks like, but in my mind I'm seeing Ben Wishaw because of the Jeremy Thorpe series which also involved a dog (discussion of the dog being in shot, upthread, gave me a nasty moment).

I didn't know Stonewall think that sex and gender identity is the same thing. I thought even they recognise that sex and gender identity are different. What about the gender bread man etc?

PM'ed you the link, @PrelateChuckles

Did we decide who would play BC? No idea what KM looks like, but in my mind I'm seeing Ben Wishaw

I think Ben could work.

<cough> bullshit

To help with casting, there is a photo of KM on this page. https://www.stonewall.org.uk/how-lgbtq-inclusive-sport-can-change-lives

That's rich re TERF!! Says it's respectful to use that language as GC choose it for themselves.

What a liar. "TERF is a term that GC feminists use for themselves"

Now KM is suggesting a certain group of gender-critical people call themselves "terfs", and it's never used abusively.

I'm holding my sides together.

KM: TERF is a particular subset of gender critical people who use that word to describe themselves are our use of it is respectful of that.