YogabirthUK cancel event after Freddy McConnell flounce

[WinterTrees]

Saw this on twitter this morning but can't see a thread here.

Milli Hill was supposed to be appearing at an event run by YogabirthUK entitled 'Gender and Birth: A space to listen.' Milli was lined up to appear alongside Freddy McConnell and another speaker, but Freddy pulled out after the event was announced, on the grounds that Freddy could not appear 'alongside/after/in the same remote vicinity' as a birth specialist who recognises biological sex.

Full tantrum available here. twitter.com/millihill/status/1498060037536714752

The YogabirthUK Instagram link is worth looking at too. Lots of support for Milli Hill and regret about the cancellation of an event that was literally supposed to be providing 'space to listen', but the TRA input is interesting and very telling. (Spoiler alert: TRA claims MH is a disgusting transphobe for being exclusionary to transwomen when - crucially - Freddy is a transman. And excluded Freddyself.)

I am having one of those days when my patience with all this feels very thin. Very thin indeed.

I imagine the problems will start to come as the children grow. All of this administrative stuff is really by the by.

The actual issue is how a child is going to feel when they discover their father is female, when they start to ask what is going on, when trust and belief and so on come into play. What is that going to do to the relationship? How is the child going to feel? Has anyone involved given this any consideration, or is it all just about satisfying Freddy's compulsions?

Having a baby's just the beginning, really.

@DobbyTheHouseElk

Surely he wasn’t on testosterone when he was pregnant?

That sentence makes no sense in my head.

In the pictures posted post birth it looked as though Freddie had vestiges of facial hair which would suggest that they were still taking some sort of hormone. Just as well the breastfeeding didn’t happen, poor baby.

I think Freddy has written a children’s book to help him explain the situation to his children. But I can’t remember the details.

I wonder about the administrative stuff too. SJ is the same age as my DD, so would normally be due to start school this year. The council keep tabs on DD (and the other children) and asked her nursery to remind me to complete her school application (BTW, I hadn’t forgotten, I was in the process of moving house, and hoping to use our new address).

Perhaps there is an entry on the register of births for SJ, but no certificate was printed and given to Freddy?

Is Freddie gay? Because that's another thing for the children to deal with, isn't it? (I'm not in any way prejudiced BTW, but recognize that there is still lots of prejudice out there, just to clarify)

Freddy appeared to have been g*d by some people Freddy met at university in Scotland
Scuse me being dim but I don't know what the g word is here...

@loislovesstewie

Is Freddie gay? Because that's another thing for the children to deal with, isn't it? (I'm not in any way prejudiced BTW, but recognize that there is still lots of prejudice out there, just to clarify)

In the seahorse film they were in a relationship with another transman. I don’t know how that relationship would be defined.

I don’t know how that relationship would be defined.

Stnnng and Brv

@DameHelena

Freddy appeared to have been g*d by some people Freddy met at university in Scotland Scuse me being dim but I don't know what the g word is here...

Groomed. I didn't want my post to be deleted and we're not supposed to mention that word on here. (This post will probably disappear)

What did they study at uni?

F was in a relationship with another trans person in the documentary, they were planning to co-parent (where deciding which sperm donor together) but I was never sure if it was more of a friendship. The other person I think was female but I haven't seen the documentary for a while.

There was another crowdfunder for Chalk Productions to make a new documentary, along with other trans parent's stories, and it was to include footage from the birth in Sweden. I don't think that for off the ground and the donations were mainly arriving for the travel and accommodation and doula etc for Sweden. I think it's outrageous that the crowdfunder started by F's mother should still be receiving donations, surely they should be refunding them as the reasons why the money was needed is no longer. F must be busy, as I've said, but F's mother could deal with the admin of this surely? Those people have donated in good faith, I hope F and F's mother are as transparent about it as they say they will be.

Regarding the fundraiser, surely there’s only one course of action? The family post an update explaining why they didn’t go to Sweden, then refund everyone. If they want to start a new Gofundme, they can, although I’m not sure why they would need to.

What wouldn’t be OK would be putting the onus on each donor to request a refund if they wanted one. So I’m sure they won’t do that.

OldCrone, thank you, and sorry if I get you into trouble...!

@KittenKong, I think Freddy studied Arabic. He wrote an interesting article about coming out in Afghanistan.

I remember Freddy because several years ago, he was one of the winners of a Guardian competition to find new talent. There were accusations of bias at the time because all of the winners were women, apart from Freddy. So when Freddy later wrote that he was trans, this stuck in my mind. I can’t remember who any of the other winners were now.

I don't think that the facial hair postnatally would mean that someone was still taking cross sex hormones - those changes are permanent, as demonstrated by detransitioners.

However, if testosterone has permanent effects on female hair follicles it would be reasonable to wonder what else it has a permanent effect on.

Like a uterus.

[quote Cattenberg]@KittenKong, I think Freddy studied Arabic. He wrote an interesting article about coming out in Afghanistan.

I remember Freddy because several years ago, he was one of the winners of a Guardian competition to find new talent. There were accusations of bias at the time because all of the winners were women, apart from Freddy. So when Freddy later wrote that he was trans, this stuck in my mind. I can’t remember who any of the other winners were now.[/quote]
I'm sorry, WHAAAAAAT?

Studied Arabic (at St Andrews or Edinburgh, both thoroughly woked) and then CAME OUT IN AFGHANISTAN?

Is that evidence of self harm?

If I was that person's tutor or boss I'd have sent them home. That's unhinged and puts everyone at risk.

That’s be safe enough. They would probably just shake their heads.

Hm. Be interesting, a natal female declaring to the Taliban they were in fact a man, so no need for burkha, chaperone, etc. Wonder how that would go down. Might be a very appealing option for a woman in Taliban ruled Afghanistan.

I thought that Afghanistan wasn't particularly friendly towards LGBTQIA+ people, @KittenKong?

If FM was driving around wearing a salwar kameez and I was a line manager I'd be a bit worried that F might land up taking a short way down from the top of a block of flats.

Mind you, it would have been a few years ago that FM was there? Pre Taliban?

Obviously there are plenty of children growing up in "unconventional" family units; one mum/two dads/grandparents etc. I assume they're given honest answers when they ask who their mum/dad is.

What is this individual going to tell the children when they inevitably ask who their mum is?

-you don't have a mum (lie)
-you had a donor mum (lie)
-you are super-special and were made by two dads (lie)
-sex/gender is a spectrum so there's no such thing as a mum; you don't need one (disgusting lie)

I suppose the least worst answer would be "I'm your mum but prefer to be known as your dad" which is at least truthful.

I tell you what, the teachers are going to draw lots to avoid having those kids in their class. No one is going to want to teach human biology with Freddy breathing down their neck.

It's gaslighting children. Incidentally, if you haven't read the excellent Children of Transitioners blog, it's really worth a read. The review of Seahorse is excellent: childrenoftransitioners.org/2019/09/21/seahorse-a-review/

As regards FM coming out as trans in Afghanistan, perhaps the situation there is similar to the one in Iran where gender reassignment is fine but homosexuality isn’t?

Clymene, that Children of Transitioners link is indeed really eye-opening, thanks for posting it. And yes, the review answers many of the very timely questions posed on here.

Hasn't read that review Clymene, I didn't know F made some life changing decisions based on a James Bond film and I had forgotten the mixed-heritage sperm donor part.

It really wasn't a good documentary as it didn't explore the questions it posed. As the Children of Transitioners point out, it was imbalanced and the long term impacts weren't considered for the child. But basically that is the message of the documentary and what has happened in reality.

[quote Clymene]I tell you what, the teachers are going to draw lots to avoid having those kids in their class. No one is going to want to teach human biology with Freddy breathing down their neck.

It's gaslighting children. Incidentally, if you haven't read the excellent Children of Transitioners blog, it's really worth a read. The review of Seahorse is excellent: childrenoftransitioners.org/2019/09/21/seahorse-a-review/[/quote]
Equally who would send their children to a school where the staff potentially play along with the lie that men can give birth? Is FM expecting the whole world and its children to collude in the charade of the Emperor’s New Clothes once their children start attending school? How does this play out for their children and, just as importantly, for all the other children these children will start coming into contact with?

He wrote an interesting article about coming out in Afghanistan.

That was after university wasn't it? In the seahorse documentary Freddy's mother says that Freddy was at university in Edinburgh, and was unhappy, and said 'I'm a boy and I want to be a boy, and I realise this is how I've been feeling all my life'.

So did Freddy 'come out' as trans at university and then again a few years later in Afghanistan?