FB Groups and JK

[SusannaQueen]

Ok, I'm just having a rant and I know FB groups are free to set their own rules.
I've been following a fab FB group, (Home for Peculiar Artists 2), post goes up from admin saying this is a reminder, we don't allow anything Harry Potter or JKR related, if you don't know why then educate yourself. Lots of supportive replies.
I'm on the group in my real name, so I'm not going to weigh in, but it hugely fucks me off, so many people just believing lies with no dissent allowed. Just makes me think this whole thing is insurmountable.

Sexed bodies aren't a label so much as a physical reality.
If people can't understand that then I have no confidence that they can take issues like child protection seriously.

@endlesswinter

Sexed bodies aren't a label so much as a physical reality. If people can't understand that then I have no confidence that they can take issues like child protection seriously.

The words "man" and "woman" are labels that you're choosing to impose.

Nothing about "sexed bodies" demands strict imposition of those labels. It is purely your choice to do so, imposing those labels on others, against their will.

Actually personally my focus is keeping male sexed bodies out of female sexed bodies spaces.

I don't really care what they call themselves.

No stalls are for horses. When I use my gym/swimming changing facilities I see naked women's breasts and external genitalia because it's a regular women's communal area, and they see mine as I am a woman.

No penis would be welcome.

@endlesswinter

Actually personally my focus is keeping male sexed bodies out of female sexed bodies spaces.

I don't really care what they call themselves.

And you do realize that the mere existence of this kind of segregation is upholding gender, right?

While we're discussing cubicles in changing areas.

A Peeping Tom left a 15-year-old swimmer terrified of getting changed when he used a mobile phone to film her over the top of a cubicle. Edward Smith locked himself in a neighbouring cubicle in the mixed gender changing area as a group of swimmers aged ten to 17 were ending a training session.

He waited for the swimmers to get out and then held his hand up to take photos of the naked girl, who screamed in horror when she spotted his phone.

Smith fled the changing room at the Exe Valley Leisure Centre in Tiverton but police released a grainy CCTV image which led to the 40-year-old farmer being identified and arrested.

Analysts then found images on his phone and computer which proved he had done the same thing at the same swimming pool twice before.

www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/peeping-tom-left-girl-swimmer-scared-changing-room-7988374

@Enough4me

No stalls are for horses. When I use my gym/swimming changing facilities I see naked women's breasts and external genitalia because it's a regular women's communal area, and they see mine as I am a woman.

No penis would be welcome.

Unless it's a trans man's penis, since clearly, a trans man would have to keep using female facilities.

How can a group of naked women know that a penis is a woman's penis, when it isn't?

No it is maintaining sex segregation.

It is actually showing how flexible gender is because the genders will be mixed between the two sex groups.

People who identify as women and men will be in both groups which is surely thoroughly progressive no?

And you do realize that the mere existence of this kind of segregation is upholding gender, right?

The fact that 1 in 5 women is subjected to attempted or completed rape in her life is "upholding gender".

The figures on sexual harassment in the UK are "upholding gender".

Deal with how women are treated in spaces where we are fully clothes and then we will talk about how some men feel unhappy that they don't get to change with women at the swimming pool

extract

More than four-fifths of young women in the UK have been subjected to sexual harassment, according to a survey for UNWomenUK, which warns that most women have lost faith that the abuse will be dealt with.

Among women aged 18-24, 86% said they had been sexually harassed in public spaces, while just 3% did not recall ever having experienced sexually harassing behaviour. The remaining 11% chose not to answer the question.

According to the survey, published in areport by the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) for UN Women, 71% of women of any age said they had experienced sexual harassment in public spaces

We are looking at a situation where younger women are constantly modifying their behaviour in an attempt to avoid being objectified or attacked, and older women are reporting serious concerns about personal safety if they ever leave the house in the dark – even during the daytime in winter.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/10/almost-all-young-women-in-the-uk-have-been-sexually-harassed-survey-finds

There is no way the woman in my gym would be happy to be naked in front of strange men exposing themselves. It isn't progressive to deny this reality.

Unless it's a trans man's penis, since clearly, a trans man would have to keep using female facilities.

If the men object to the transman in their spaces, then yes. Go make a thread on pistonheads and ask.

As the vast majority don't pursue phalloplasties, transmen are far more at risk in the men's area, because of the risk of rape if they are recognised as female.

@Enough4me

There is no way the woman in my gym would be happy to be naked in front of strange men exposing themselves. It isn't progressive to deny this reality.

So, what if a trans man needs to use a changing room? Should someone like Buck Angel use the women's changing rooms on account of being "biologically female"?

I think the more mature women would probably physically help a man to leave the women's facilities TBH.

Female changing room for females, so yes females use them.

Do the men object to Buck in the changing rooms? Go and find out.

In fact, go and ask Buck for personal guidance and recommendations. We are setting our boundaries. It's not for us to tell men what they want and don't want.

Women can change their pronouns and features, but most don't have full surgery and they don't sexually assault other women at the rate men do.

@Wavedancer99 why not investigate 3rd spaces as you have noted the common issue that male and female changing facilities are not suitable for trans people?

Given the difference in sexual assault levels you may find men are more relaxed about biological women in their spaces.
I suggest you find some men and ask them.

Statistically women are safer sharing their private spaces with trans men.

Women aren't responsible for men's behavior, maybe if they sort themselves out you could get back to us on letting them into our spaces.

The other option is trans people arrange third spaces that meet their needs in the way people with disabilities have done and family spaces.

[quote Enough4me]@Wavedancer99 why not investigate 3rd spaces as you have noted the common issue that male and female changing facilities are not suitable for trans people?[/quote]
I would definitely not approve of trans people being restricted to third spaces, but unisex spaces should definitely also exist as a general rule.

Trans people aren't being restricted to third spaces, but if they aren't comfortable with the same sex provision and I can see how this could be case then they should request them.

I wonder whether your implications are even in the interest of someone like Buck Angel.

In the event Buck or any transman was sent to prison, a sentence in a men's prison would pose a wholly unacceptable level of danger.

That is a very valid point purgatory, transmen shouldn't be placed in the male estate for their own safety.

I have been distressed before by self-styled trans-activists claiming transmen should be placed in men's prisons. No regard for how transmen are at risk of corrective rape, at all.