FB Groups and JK

[SusannaQueen]

Ok, I'm just having a rant and I know FB groups are free to set their own rules.
I've been following a fab FB group, (Home for Peculiar Artists 2), post goes up from admin saying this is a reminder, we don't allow anything Harry Potter or JKR related, if you don't know why then educate yourself. Lots of supportive replies.
I'm on the group in my real name, so I'm not going to weigh in, but it hugely fucks me off, so many people just believing lies with no dissent allowed. Just makes me think this whole thing is insurmountable.

WTF, of course sex chromosomes define biological sex.

Even when we are all skeletons in the ground the effects of XX and XY are evident and skeletons are sexed.

@Wavedancer99

"You believe this about those words. We do not believe it. We are using the terms in different ways. If you can't accept and acknowledge this, even if you disagree with it, the discussion will go nowhere."

The thing is, you insist on imposing your definitions of terms on trans women, and demand involuntary labeling, categorization, and segregation.

That is unacceptable.

Female catheters for all then!

The sex difference in urethral lengths means that, should the shorter female length catheter be used in males, the inflation of the balloon with water occurs within the male urethra rather than the bladder. This can cause severe urethral trauma and result in pain and haemorrhage, or longer term effects such as urethral strictures, retention or incontinence.

So, women born with a vagina are actually men (adult human males) if it turns out they have XY chromosomes?

Also, you do realize other chromosome configurations than XX and XY exist?

Sex is a protected characteristic.
Belief in sex is very much allowed and acceptable. It is in fact a legal requirement.

Being critical of gender theory is a protected legal viewpoint also very much acceptable.
Other beliefs are also acceptable, the UK isn't a totalitarian state.

UK is institutionally transphobic, tell me something I didn't already know.

@Wavedancer99

So, women born with a vagina are actually men (adult human males) if it turns out they have XY chromosomes?

Also, you do realize other chromosome configurations than XX and XY exist?

They're called karyotypes, and they are congenital conditions of sexual development.

They are also conditions that the overwhelming majority of people with trans identities don't have.

So, about those catheters. Is it an infringement of trans rights if a male catheter is used on a male patient?

@Wavedancer99

UK is institutionally transphobic, tell me something I didn't already know.

Did you know that transwomen gained the right to marry a male partner in the UK years before gay men did?

Do you feel that trans women should only receive female healthcare waves?
Is it transphobic to suggest that they should have healthcare which takes account of their male bodies.

And the opposite for transmen of course.

"So, about those catheters. Is it an infringement of trans rights if a male catheter is used on a male patient?"

Obviously physical characteristics should be considered in medical contexts, to provide the best possible medical care.

But we're not talking about that. We are talking about your constant attempts to impose social categorization and segregation on the basis of those physical characteristics outside medical context.

IIRC, the trans rights lobby groups allied with religious groups so that the right could be granted to trans people, but not gay men, lesbians and bisexuals with a same-sex partner.

Interesting, isn't it

It's not transphobic to state sex exists, it's real and cannot be swapped through feelings anymore than it's possible to change species.

@Wavedancer99

"You believe this about those words. We do not believe it. We are using the terms in different ways. If you can't accept and acknowledge this, even if you disagree with it, the discussion will go nowhere."

The thing is, you insist on imposing your definitions of terms on trans women, and demand involuntary labeling, categorization, and segregation.

That is unacceptable.

Oh really. You must know you’re talking rubbish.

Look, @Wavedancer99. (Were you born in 1999?) You’re obviously quick and bright. So either you’re just arguing specious sophistry knowing it’s rubbish, or (more likely), you suspect that there are holes and incoherences in what you’re arguing because - well, because, anyone decently bright enough can see them. And you probably suspect that if you let yourself acknowledge it, you know the whole house of this fantasised pseudo-poststructuralism would fall down (I call it this to distinguish it from actual poststructuralism which is far more sophisticated than gender ideology).

But, do yourself a favour. Put your intellect to better use and abandon all this silly undergraduate style stuff. Do some serious reading and learn to think properly, and not just regurgitate all this social media idiocy. I’ve never known a really clever person be taken in by all of this. Don’t waste your time with it - learn how to do real philosophy and real theory.

Night night. It’s been fun.

If characteristics are acceptable for health care, (male catheters), why are we supposed to imagine a penis is female in a changing room?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

IIRC, the trans rights lobby groups allied with religious groups so that the right could be granted to trans people, but not gay men, lesbians and bisexuals with a same-sex partner.

Interesting, isn't it

Hahaha, now you're just living in opposite world, as if religious conservative organizations like Heritage Foundation aren't currently backing the "gender critical" movement.

Ok.
So trans women should receive healthcare which acknowledges the physical reality of their male sexed bodies.

But females shouldn't ever acknowledge the reality of trans women male sexed bodies.

Do you see any imbalance in that view? There is plenty of space for compromises in this debate but not by denying physical realities.

The earth just isn't flat.

@Wavedancer99

"So, about those catheters. Is it an infringement of trans rights if a male catheter is used on a male patient?"

Obviously physical characteristics should be considered in medical contexts, to provide the best possible medical care.

But we're not talking about that. We are talking about your constant attempts to impose social categorization and segregation on the basis of those physical characteristics outside medical context.

Right. So physical reality exists. You accept that when I am talking about catheters, I am only talking about physical reality of bodies.

Now I want you to go a step further, and accept that I might always mean that.

@Enough4me

If characteristics are acceptable for health care, (male catheters), why are we supposed to imagine a penis is female in a changing room?

Because whether or not someone has a penis is really none of your businesses?

Also, do stalls simply not exist in your world?

@endlesswinter

Ok. So trans women should receive healthcare which acknowledges the physical reality of their male sexed bodies.

But females shouldn't ever acknowledge the reality of trans women male sexed bodies.

Do you see any imbalance in that view? There is plenty of space for compromises in this debate but not by denying physical realities.

The earth just isn't flat.

Physical reality matters when denying it would cause male people to suffer.

Interesting.

The Heritage foundation is in the USA, do you have UK examples?

Also, do stalls simply not exist in your world

Stalls are used for horses?

"Now I want you to go a step further, and accept that I might always mean that."

I don't give a shit what you "mean", you are imposing unwanted labels on people, labels that you know carry social weight (which you're knowingly and willfully weaponizing) and I do not consent to that.

Because whether or not someone has a penis is really none of your businesses?

Also, do stalls simply not exist in your world?

In very many public buildings, they indeed don't. Getting the local council to keep the swimming pool open is battle enough. There is no money to refurbish the entirety of the changing area. Besides, stalls are not a perfect solution.

Also, do stalls simply not exist in your world?

Are you in the UK? Because the majority of changing rooms I have been in at pools, gyms etc here in the UK are open spaces, not individual rooms.

Stalls is an American word.

@Wavedancer99

"Now I want you to go a step further, and accept that I might always mean that."

I don't give a shit what you "mean", you are imposing unwanted labels on people, labels that you know carry social weight (which you're knowingly and willfully weaponizing) and I do not consent to that.

Then you cannot conduct a conversation. You may as well monologue in a dramatic manner to your bathroom mirror.