LGBT parliamentary Discussion 1st July

[Cyclingmum50]

I thought this link might be of interest from yesterday's Parliamentary discussion

mobile.twitter.com/MhairiBlack/status/1410617488656633865

Also, in practice the policy suggested is that everyone should use the toilet in which they feel most comfortable, regardless of whether they are trans (which is never defined) and regardless of the impact on others.

Precisely.

As the judge confirmed today: these rights are indeed pie. A TW cannot use the right to use the toilet in which they feel most comfortable without removing the same right from women who require single sex toilets. 'Everyone' is misleading here: it translates to 'those with most power get to choose, at the expense of those with less power'. A two tier system in which values are important to apply to some, but it is perfectly acceptable to deny those values to others. Based on their sex class.

Equally a male person cannot exercise their right to self define as a lesbian, and to share a belief that for women to wish to be homosexual is unkind, uninclusive and unacceptable, without removing the right from women to be homosexual.

Saw a 'LGBTQ+ affirming' Christian group share this video on facebook. It's a group that styles itself activist, and where a mod who belongs to the T is constantly pushing T into everything, even discussion about same sex marriage, which is still not allowed in the CofE, and has only just been allowed by the Methodists, to much fanfare. They also share incredibly erroneous safeguarding advice to churches about Trans/NB people, including dicey suggestions about secrecy and single sex church youth trips.

Maybe it's a feature of religious types to be anti-gay or only half-heartedly pro-gay, while reinforcing sexism and putting kids and vulnerable people at risk, or maybe this bunch are outliers. I see a lot of them have the ear of government bods like Black & co, though. Definitely fighting against the establishment there.

MPs, Church bodies, charities, corporations, government bodies are definitely pushing these lies for the sake of equality and justice.

A conspiracy theory that abuse victims and left wing feminists are puppets for American fundamentalists is definitely the reasonable explanation for why women aren't just rolling over.

And that Aiden prat on Twitter will crop this post as proof that I am indeed funded by the US right wing. Jesus. How the fuck are we not extinct as a species yet?

@Waitwhat23

How you phrase survey questions is quite telling.

Yes, I'm afraid the paranoia about "right-wing religious extremists" simply doesn't apply in the UK and it's ridiculous to try to apply it here.

Disagreeing with a GC viewpoint is anyone's right, of course, but maybe base it on actual facts, not a dreamed-up bogeyman you've imported from an entirely different context. A context where homophobia (remember that? Being hateful to gay men and women, just for being same-sex-attracted?) is still rampant.

@Ekofisk indeed - when the questions are more concrete (as can be seen from the progression from theoretical to actual), the answers aren't quite as cut and dried as the version commisioned by Pink News and which is given as 'proof' of acceptance. It's interesting how results can differ.

@Waitwhat23

Just imagine what the man on the Clapham omnibus would answer if the question was “any male can self ID as a woman with absolutely no checks and claim entry to single sex spaces”.

Yes. Homophobia (being hateful to gay men and women, just for being same sex attracted) is still rampant:

Gay worker wins payout after staff repeatedly used homophobic slurs

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9749393/Gay-worker-energy-firm-wins-35k-payout-staff-repeatedly-used-homophobic-slurs.html

Sadly this is the reality for many of being out at work.

Jesus Christ, that's horrific. The casual sexism, racism and general lewd atmosphere sounds like something out of a bad pastiche of Life on Mars.

I note all the slurs were starred out except bizarrely the q one and the word fairy.

Horrific indeed, Floral. I'd have thought this type of language went out of style about 20 or 30 years ago.

Fwiw, I don't hear it at work, but I certainly hear it round abouts the area I live (quite impoverished, persistent problems with drugs, social cohesion, etc. Came across a lot of struggling people when I volunteered for a foodbank) The missives about appropriate language seem to fall on strangely deaf ears at kicking out time, and in the bus queue. Mostly I personally get teenage boys sniggering, but they'd do that with any woman, I suspect. The really fruity language, including the blocked out slurs in that article, and the Q slur, are just casually dropped into conversation like fuck and cunt.
At work you have some redress, of course. Waiting for the bus or walking past the pub, not so much.

Maybe I should have a word with my fundamentalist paymasters, see about moving to a more respectable area.

Having lived and worked in Yorkshire and Leeds I can honestly say I have met openly racist, misogynistic and homophobic people there. Also wonderfully accepting, open and kind people. I think the main difference is that in other areas it’s hidden under a surface veneer of political correctness. But the attitude is still there. At lest with open prejudice you know what your fighting.

Oh that language is the norm in many areas I know of in the north east.

(Memorable moment in a primary school in a v deprived area where a child shouted at another: "you home owner!" Obviously not the intended slur. Also ironic as most lived in council housing.)

Really fantastic to see her speech. It calls out the bigotry being faced today still by all the LGBT community, as well as the strategies being deployed which people readily get sucked into - especially on echo chambers like this forum can be.

Solidarity across all of the L, G, B, T, + and those who support equality and zero tolerance for bigotry.

Really a speech to celebrate. It's no wonder the SNP are so progressive.

Yeah. Real progressive. 👏

Tell that to Sinead who's living with the results of this progression.

I'd love to see a discussion on this between Black and Watson.

I'd love Watson to be an mp tbh.

Floral

Genderists seek to impose a set of beliefs on society that set Gender rules in stone. They are old fashioned sexists, and Black is one of them. She stands on the necks of other women with her lies about the feminists in this country being puppets of American misogynists while she insists that a woman is just a feeling and that women's rights are secondary to trans demands. She can spin in the wind all she likes. Feminists will stand firm and expose the lies with the determination that has kept us going in the face of rape threats, death threats and open bigotry such as was displayed on this thread.

Yes.

The grassroots feminism movement in Scotland is growing as more and more people are waking up to the inherent anti women and anti lesbian views of TRA's in the name of 'progression'. Solidarity to all those who are LGB and are not being well served by organisations who are meant to be their voice

This fight will be won. Women won't wheesht.

#WomenWontWheesht

Solidarity from England.

Know what I fucking love?

They kick the shit out of us, they threaten us, they crow about it - and we just dig in and press on. They never fucking learn that the more they push us down, the firmer we become, like wood pressed into coal pressed into diamonds.

Every single time there is a setback I've seen it. After the first horrific reminder that women are nothing to these people, we take a breath, and by the time the ideologues sweep in thinking they've beaten us down and can crow about it, we're galvanized by the exposure of the truth, and more determined to fight.

They never seem to understand that the cockier they get about displaying their victories of cruelty, the more they show the blissfully ignorant public who they are, and the more we stand firm.

You're fucking fantastic, women. Keep on, like I know you were always going to. Let the taunts of misogynists and fools be the soundtrack that you recall with a smile when they are humiliated by the just. We'll get there. ✌✊💪

Really fantastic to see her speech.

For a brief, exciting moment, I thought this was wrt to Watson's video.

Then I realised that I'd flipped the thread.

Watson's video is powerful, moving, and enraging. If NHS Scotland or the SMC are waiting on the Cass report and want some local testimony, I hope that Watson is among those who shares her testimony.

Farewell then Mhairi ; I had thought you were smart / But you're like Owen Jones , the duplicitous fart.

“Farewell then Mhairi
I had thought you were smart but
you're like Owen Jones”

Haiku!

senryu, perhaps.

Taxi for pedant's corner, please.

'"homosexual" is viewed as a pejorative and pathologising term by most of the community

Pretty sure that the only people to believe the above think that homosexuality is a pathology.

Here's me thinking that the hiving off of us into a separate section was so that people could avoid our discussions and keep the Feminism Chat section pure for all those topics they wanted to talk about and yet on every thread in this section up pop the ones that moaned non-stop about the discussions around sex and gender being in the main Feminist topic. The cynic in me would think that the move was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to stop us talking at all.