Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

Not a surprise and hopefully it’ll open some eyes about the utter ridiculousness of allowing someone who is male to compete against women in weightlifting

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/05/trans-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-set-to-make-history-at-tokyo-olympics

www.telegraph.co.uk/womens-sport/2021/06/21/special-report-nursing-mums-forced-choose-olympics-babies/

So the Olympics has to be inclusive when it comes to trans women but refuses to be inclusive when it comes to women. Full page feature in the D Tel sport section where archery competitor and mother of a five month old has spent every evening breast pumping to freeze enough milk for her partner to feed to their daughter while she is in Tokyo competing. The Olympic authorities won't let her take her daughter with her.

There is a picture of the 50 frozen bottles she has so far pumped and she is aiming for around 80 by the time she gets to Tokyo.It is draining on her body because mothers who express more than the baby's need can find it exhausting.

Clear message here - being a man who identifies as a woman the Olympics will welcome you. Being a woman doing what a woman does - tough shit. Knock yourself out lady, see if we care.

Don't have time to RTFT, sorry, but this Reddit thread is surprising (Reddit is know for taking a VERY pro-trans stance on most subreddits, heavy TRA moderator presence, etc)

www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/o4iw2z/weightlifter_laurel_hubbard_will_be_first_trans/

Nicola was so good, honestly how she manages to keep so calm and factual.

I noticed she managed to avoid pronouns too - what a pro!

Is it not correct that limits of testosterone for TW are 2-3 times that of women? If a woman had the same blood levels they'd be banned for dopping? Lowering the testosterone any further for TW to that of women would be very dangerous physiologically?

If so I wish that would get its way into the conversation too.

Is it not correct that limits of testosterone for TW are 2-3 times that of women? If a woman had the same blood levels they'd be banned for dopping? Lowering the testosterone any further for TW to that of women would be very dangerous physiologically?

At least a factor of 2 over normal female range.

If a woman had the same blood levels, it would pretty much be evidence of doping, but if somehow she had those levels and was healthy (not really possible), then she wouldn't be banned. There's no limit for females. (There is for athletes with XY DSDs like Semenya, who are effectively male).

Not sure about the lowering further part. 10 nmol/l (the limit) is at the bottom end of normal male ranges, so I guess, yes, lowering below that would be more unsafe. But a male would end up lower if they'd had surgery. I don't know why the limit was set so high.

@flyingbuttress43 depressing but not surprising

Re testosterone - if TWAW why don’t they have the same testosterone limit as natal women? Is that not another massive cognitive dissidence that sex matters when it’s favourable but doesn’t matter when it’s not?

Can natal women become trans men and and take higher levels of testosterone, and then if they find (a shirt time) later actually they identify as a woman can they be a trans woman and have allowed high levels of testosterone for competition? Or do they get woman rules applied?

Reporters need to stop leaving the discussion at testosterone and start really understanding all the differences between males and females.
You wouldn't think that this would need to be spelt out but I'm sick of reading about keeping testosterone under a level which is still higher than a woman's.
And then reading that we are all one a spectrum like Phelps with his big feet!

We are continually told a rose by any other name …

Ok. So an unfair advantage cheat is still a cheat then?

Not sure about the lowering further part. 10 nmol/l (the limit) is at the bottom end of normal male ranges, so I guess, yes, lowering below that would be more unsafe. But a male would end up lower if they'd had surgery. I don't know why the limit was set so high.

The IAAF level is 5 nmol/l.

Male’s free testosterone levels are generally 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L, whilst most females (including elite female athletes) have much lower levels, in the order of 0.12 to 1.79 nmol/L.

And then reading that we are all one a spectrum like Phelps with his big feet!

A female swimmer with the same body proportions as Phelps would not swim as fast due to all the male physiological advantages - bigger lungs, higher VO2 max, larger heart, wider shoulders, more fast twitch muscles etc.

Even with his morphological advantages, Phelps had some pretty narrow victories, winning the 100m fly by between 0.01 and 0.23 seconds at the 2004, 2008 and 2012 Olympics. Some wins were down to just being better at starts, turns and finishes than his competitors (Cavic actually touched first in the 2008 final, but didn’t hit the timing pad hard enough).

I can't even put in to words how pissed off I am for every female competitor who will be push out of medals by this person. Female athletes/sports players will be wiped off the map before long.

Aye tits

And can you just imagine the unhappiness there will be when they manage to do just that?

Because they will be competing against their equals again with no unfair advantage.

No one to cast aside because then they really will be ‘just the same’ …

@Ekofisk

And then reading that we are all one a spectrum like Phelps with his big feet!

A female swimmer with the same body proportions as Phelps would not swim as fast due to all the male physiological advantages - bigger lungs, higher VO2 max, larger heart, wider shoulders, more fast twitch muscles etc.

Even with his morphological advantages, Phelps had some pretty narrow victories, winning the 100m fly by between 0.01 and 0.23 seconds at the 2004, 2008 and 2012 Olympics. Some wins were down to just being better at starts, turns and finishes than his competitors (Cavic actually touched first in the 2008 final, but didn’t hit the timing pad hard enough).

My swimming club back home had a swimmer who went to the London Olympics, she was in the top 15 in her discipline in the world. Yet, when she was swimming against the best of our male swimmers, who never went anywhere further than state level and who was already past his prime, she would regularly lose. All due to the difference between male and female physiology, puberty, hormones etc..

I used to train with a superb male swimmer.

I beat him once.

He got a cramp. Nothing at all to do with my swimming out of my skin.

@GrimDamnFanjo

Reporters need to stop leaving the discussion at testosterone and start really understanding all the differences between males and females. You wouldn't think that this would need to be spelt out but I'm sick of reading about keeping testosterone under a level which is still higher than a woman's. And then reading that we are all one a spectrum like Phelps with his big feet!

Yes! I can’t find the link as just on my phone now but there are studies which show that there are a reasonable amount of elite male athletes who have lower testosterone than the average yet they’re at their peak and can beat most males. Also you don’t measure the testosterone of males before a race and then find any correlation between the winners and those with the highest levels. Testosterone is just one piece of the puzzle and can’t be taken separately as that meaningful.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9709005/PIERS-MORGAN-Allowing-transgender-weightlifter-compete-Tokyo-Olympics-mistake.html

Interesting that Hubbard is 43 and the average age for weight lifters to be at the top of their game is mid 20's. I wonder why that could be?

I hope she wins just so that there is an uproar and people get angry.

We need a spotlight on this now, so people sit up and take notice. This ridiculous situation needs to end.

A woman who has worked tirelessly has missed out on her opportunity to go to the olympics because Laurel has taken her place.

Shame on Laurel and shame on those who have allowed this to happen.

The world has gone crackers!

They covered this on Radio 1 Newsbeat this morning. I was actually quite surprised when they said 'before she transitioned she competed in the men's competition'.

I don't think Laurel Hubbard will win gold in Tokyo - I think there will be far too many eyes on that competition......

I don’t think Hubbard will win.

I don’t think winning is the point, I think being there is the point.

It doesn't matter if Laurel wins or not - Laurel has already taken a place on the team.
If Laurel has a convenient injury or sudden weakness so Laurel doesn't win the competition or a medal, that still doesn't help the woman who missed out.

twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1407007860047945731

My 14yr old son has been well and truly peaked.
Him in the car >>> "HOW is THAT fair?!!".

@flyingbuttress43

www.telegraph.co.uk/womens-sport/2021/06/21/special-report-nursing-mums-forced-choose-olympics-babies/

So the Olympics has to be inclusive when it comes to trans women but refuses to be inclusive when it comes to women. Full page feature in the D Tel sport section where archery competitor and mother of a five month old has spent every evening breast pumping to freeze enough milk for her partner to feed to their daughter while she is in Tokyo competing. The Olympic authorities won't let her take her daughter with her.

There is a picture of the 50 frozen bottles she has so far pumped and she is aiming for around 80 by the time she gets to Tokyo.It is draining on her body because mothers who express more than the baby's need can find it exhausting.

Clear message here - being a man who identifies as a woman the Olympics will welcome you. Being a woman doing what a woman does - tough shit. Knock yourself out lady, see if we care.

Fucking hell, this gives me the absolute rage.

Pumping is SHIT. I’m currently breastfeeding my 10 week old and that’s draining enough without pumping extra to store and training for the bloody Olympics!

I’m so angry about all of this utter bollocks.

@megletthesecond

My 14yr old son has been well and truly peaked. Him in the car >>> "HOW is THAT fair?!!".

My DH also.

He rarely brings up anything about trans issues because he knows he then gets me ranting for 10 mins+. But this evening he mentioned that he'd seen this on the BBC website or somewhere and he was

He was smart enough to say, 'And it's not just the testosterone, it's the male puberty.'

I took the chance to explain the interesting posting rules about pronouns and how I would have to refer to Laurel as 'Laurel' or 'Hubbard' or 'that athlete' or whatever if I didn't want to either a) compromise my principles or b) clock up a deletion.

The batshittery of this whole situation stuns me every single time I actually stop and think about it.