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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Urgent action for those in Scotland

382 replies

SusanSmithFWS · 05/12/2020 18:58

The amazing Johann Lamont has put in an amendment to the forensic medical services bill. This is a really important piece of legislation which seeks to make the process easier for rape victims and we support it. We are concerned, however, that although the women who testified that access to a female examiner was the most important concern, the bill still refers to the gender - instead of sex - of the examiner.

Sex, unlike gender, is defined in the Equality Act and there is provision for recruitment under schedule 9. We believe that a small change will ensure that there is no ambiguity.

We would urge anyone from Scotland to please write to all eight of their MSPs and ask them to support the motion.

As Susan Dalgety reported in the Scotsman:
Her amendment may be only six words long – “for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’” – but it gets to the heart of the current debate about who counts as a woman.

“Women should be able to choose the sex of the person who conducts the investigation,” Johann told me last night. “This is a key test for the Parliament, which is committed to rooting action in the understanding of experience. Women courageously and powerfully spoke up so that others might fare better than them.

“The amendment is tiny but would be a huge step in listening to survivors. The committee was convinced. The Parliament should be too.”

Six words can make a world of difference.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/transgender-debate-msps-must-stand-womens-sex-based-rights-key-vote-bill-help-rape-victims-susan-dalgety-3057640

OP posts:
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Galvantula · 10/12/2020 13:52

@Sexnotgender as in whipped to support Johann's amendment?

(sorry if I am being dense)

Sexnotgender · 10/12/2020 14:37

[quote Galvantula]@Sexnotgender as in whipped to support Johann's amendment?

(sorry if I am being dense)[/quote]
YesSmile

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 10/12/2020 14:42

Ooh (I wouldn’t have been surprised to read the reverse) In there an outbreak of sense in Labour or are they just scenting blood in the SNP water ?

GrouchyKiwi · 10/12/2020 14:52

Have just had a reply from my SNP Constituency MSP, who says "I would like to assure you that I have read your comments and taken them on board, and I will keep these in mind in relation to this amendment ahead of the debate."

So very politic and who knows what he'll do.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/12/2020 14:53

Given the number of no - replies...

Are MSPs to busy to reply, or are their emails being gatekeeped by woke assistants. I'd really hope the latter is not a possibility, but I fear that it is.

GrouchyKiwi · 10/12/2020 14:58

Given the news that the Greens have been whipped to vote against the amendment, should I be pleased that one of the Green MSPs for my region is in hospital and won't attend the vote, or does Holyrood do proxy voting?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/12/2020 15:04

Just a heads up, the debate is scheduled to begin at 1625, and can be viewed here.

www.scottishparliament.tv/channel/the-debating-chamber

Galvantula · 10/12/2020 16:19

Thanks itsall

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 16:57

Finally get there and work out the weird time-travelling parliament tv

  • and it's a coffee break.
334bu · 10/12/2020 17:01

Only one reply for me.

ScoldsBridle · 10/12/2020 17:04

Has it been discussed yet?

thereplycamefromanchorage · 10/12/2020 17:05

I got a reply from my Labour MSP - surprised that he was considering my views and would discuss with colleagues prior to vote.

Green MSP said original (2014) legislation referenced gender, so he didn't think it was the right place to update it. Hm... He also apologised for stock response, as he had received so many emails on this subject.

This thread has been great though - encouraging to read of so many other Scottish mumsnetters taking action, makes me feel less alone with my concerns.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:11

Not yet, Scolds.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:14

J Lamont is up now.

Mollyollydolly · 10/12/2020 17:16

Watching it now. Johann Lamont is great isn't she? How can anyone vote against it FFS?

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:17

Come on, Johann! She's excellent. Clearly raising and countering all the bullshit points.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:18

'we need to be precise - sex is defined in law and gender is not'

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:20

Lamont quotes a survivor:

'I feel a sense of great responsiility not only to speak to ensure that the bill fully serves its purpose but to use this platform to give voice to those who have been silenced so long' (hope I got that right)

lots of applause

ScoldsBridle · 10/12/2020 17:21

Wow powerful statements by Hohann and Sandra there

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:24

Monica Lennon for Labour now.

Torys have stated their support for the amendment.

It's only going to be the SNPs and Greens now arguing for 'gender', and they're going to look ... well, I won't say it.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:25

Oh, Labour are veering off into bigotry and transwomen, now.

Mollyollydolly · 10/12/2020 17:25

Who's that woman now saying it's all about transphobia. It's about traumatised women.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:26

She says a GRC means someone is of the female sex legally (and that means that a transwoman can carry out examinations as a female, I presume?)

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 17:26

She's Monica Lennon.

ScoldsBridle · 10/12/2020 17:26

Monica Lennon I will not forget this.