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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Urgent action for those in Scotland

382 replies

SusanSmithFWS · 05/12/2020 18:58

The amazing Johann Lamont has put in an amendment to the forensic medical services bill. This is a really important piece of legislation which seeks to make the process easier for rape victims and we support it. We are concerned, however, that although the women who testified that access to a female examiner was the most important concern, the bill still refers to the gender - instead of sex - of the examiner.

Sex, unlike gender, is defined in the Equality Act and there is provision for recruitment under schedule 9. We believe that a small change will ensure that there is no ambiguity.

We would urge anyone from Scotland to please write to all eight of their MSPs and ask them to support the motion.

As Susan Dalgety reported in the Scotsman:
Her amendment may be only six words long – “for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’” – but it gets to the heart of the current debate about who counts as a woman.

“Women should be able to choose the sex of the person who conducts the investigation,” Johann told me last night. “This is a key test for the Parliament, which is committed to rooting action in the understanding of experience. Women courageously and powerfully spoke up so that others might fare better than them.

“The amendment is tiny but would be a huge step in listening to survivors. The committee was convinced. The Parliament should be too.”

Six words can make a world of difference.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/transgender-debate-msps-must-stand-womens-sex-based-rights-key-vote-bill-help-rape-victims-susan-dalgety-3057640

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ScoldsBridle · 10/12/2020 19:36

So that was a classic case of virtue signalling by Monica Lennon? Implying she was going to vote against but then actually voting in support? Won’t the transgender community and its allies be cross with her? Or will she get brownie points for speaking out? Does this kind of thing happen often in politics?

In many debates we’ve seen on this board I’ve seen the phrase ‘look at their voting record’ - it would appear that an MP’s voting record isn’t the straightforward reflection of an MP’s views that I thought it was.

littlbrowndog · 10/12/2020 19:37

Andy wightman. 🤦‍♀️

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/12/2020 19:39

Between that and the SNP NEC elections, it seems the pushback against the woke takeover is underway

Yep. It looks like the SNP is belatedly realising both that women are 51% of the population and that they can vote...

howonearthdidwegethere · 10/12/2020 19:46

Deluge Johann with cards?

Johann Lamont
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh EH99 1SP

WouldBeGood · 10/12/2020 19:49

I am so relieved

Glitterypants · 10/12/2020 20:08

Willie Rennie? What on earth was he playing at?

SassenachsWhaHae · 10/12/2020 20:11

@Glitterypants in-bloody-deed.

Is it worth writing follow up emails saying yes, I did watch how you voted and yes it will make a difference in how I vote in future?

Sexnotgender · 10/12/2020 20:17

@Glitterypants

Willie Rennie? What on earth was he playing at?
Cowardly over privileged shitebags the lot of them.
Galvantula · 10/12/2020 20:48

I wrote a wee thanks for replying/supporting the amendment back to the 4 that emailed me.

I'm not going to email them all again, but very tempted to send a "Willie Rennie? What on earth were you playing at?" ©Glitterypants

Galvantula · 10/12/2020 20:49

I'm not sure I could remain that civil to Ruskell and Rennie. 😑

334bu · 10/12/2020 20:54

Who abstained?

Annnnnnnnnd · 10/12/2020 20:55

A purely ideological decision by those parties. I've had it with them.

334bu · 10/12/2020 20:56

Just emailed Ross Greer asking him why he voted against. I think it's important that they justify their vote

PaleBlueMoonlight · 10/12/2020 21:04

Thank goodness.

howonearthdidwegethere · 10/12/2020 21:28

One of the Lib Dems didn't vote at all (Liam McArthur).

An SNP MSP was the abstention (Christine Grahame).

The votes are online now: www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=13005&mode=pdf

Columns 93&94

Against
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Rumbles, Mike (North East Scotland) (LD)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Wightman, Andy (Lothian) (Green)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
Abstentions
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and
Lauderdale) (SNP)
The Presiding Officer: The result of the
division is: For 113, Against 9, Abstentions 1.
Amendment 28 agreed to.

terryleather · 10/12/2020 22:02

I am astounded! This is just fantastic news!!

Well done to everyone involved in getting the amendment passed - still can't quite believe it.

Wrap it right roond ye, fudmeister! Grin

WaltzingBetty · 10/12/2020 22:06

@littlbrowndog

Andy wightman. 🤦‍♀️
I assume you got the same illogical Green Party cut and paste response I did? I've responded challenging his faulty logic.

Pleased with my SNP response though - it was positive and well thought out.

I'm planning on emailing again saying that I have concerns over the SNP approach to safeguarding female spaces and women in legislation generally, but that I'm pleased with today's vote and hope this is the start of positive change

purplebutterflybiscuits · 10/12/2020 22:07

Can someone clarify abstention? Is it a choice or is there a reason they could not vote?

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:11

This is a massive relief! So pleased. Can't even fathom that it got to this stage.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:14

[quote ItsAllGoingToBeFine]List of no voters here: wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-disgraces/[/quote]
All those smiling men Angry

TheLadyOfShallnott · 10/12/2020 22:39

I like a polite scottish telling ‘arabella*

Like this post on Twitter to ML.

‘Don’t blame anyone else love, we have eyes, ears and aren’t buttoned up the back’

Aye. That.

Johann Lamont and the choir who sang out. thank you. Flowers

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:52

Emma Hilton:

"Six words.

Six words that perfectly encapsulate a movement.

#SixWords #SexMatters #SexNotGender"

Urgent action for those in Scotland
HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:55

Louder for the people at the back

Urgent action for those in Scotland
NonnyMouse1337 · 10/12/2020 22:56

What an outstanding result. I did not expect such a landslide!!

Thank you everyone who emailed their MSPs, followed up on replies, tweeted and worked behind the scenes.

Good to send thank you emails to those MSPs who supported the amendment. And yes, thank you cards to Johann Lamont. Smile

EachDubh · 10/12/2020 23:10

Thank goodness for common sense. Makes the SNP powers that be look a bitty stupid though for not just agreeing in the first place. I used to support the SNP but now feel very homeless...