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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Urgent action for those in Scotland

382 replies

SusanSmithFWS · 05/12/2020 18:58

The amazing Johann Lamont has put in an amendment to the forensic medical services bill. This is a really important piece of legislation which seeks to make the process easier for rape victims and we support it. We are concerned, however, that although the women who testified that access to a female examiner was the most important concern, the bill still refers to the gender - instead of sex - of the examiner.

Sex, unlike gender, is defined in the Equality Act and there is provision for recruitment under schedule 9. We believe that a small change will ensure that there is no ambiguity.

We would urge anyone from Scotland to please write to all eight of their MSPs and ask them to support the motion.

As Susan Dalgety reported in the Scotsman:
Her amendment may be only six words long – “for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’” – but it gets to the heart of the current debate about who counts as a woman.

“Women should be able to choose the sex of the person who conducts the investigation,” Johann told me last night. “This is a key test for the Parliament, which is committed to rooting action in the understanding of experience. Women courageously and powerfully spoke up so that others might fare better than them.

“The amendment is tiny but would be a huge step in listening to survivors. The committee was convinced. The Parliament should be too.”

Six words can make a world of difference.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/transgender-debate-msps-must-stand-womens-sex-based-rights-key-vote-bill-help-rape-victims-susan-dalgety-3057640

OP posts:
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theskyispink · 10/12/2020 18:21

Excellent result.

I also received an email from my SNP MSP saying he voted for the amendment.

allmywhat · 10/12/2020 18:25

Any investigative journalists who can start looking in to what is happening to MSP's correspondence?

It's very interesting that so few MSPs replied to correspondence from constitutents on this issue, given their overwhelming vote.

Relatedly, there is considerable anecdotal evidence of Westminster MPs having their correspondence filtered by woke staff.

I think this could be a huge scandal looming, and it wouldn't even be much work to investigate, for a person with the right access.

Annnnnnnnnd · 10/12/2020 18:26

The SNP are so in thrall to transactivists that I assumed they'd be whipped to vote against.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/12/2020 18:33

The SNP are so in thrall to transactivists that I assumed they'd be whipped to vote against

I assumed that too. They've done a beautiful job of chucking the Greens under the bus.

I've just sent Johann Lamont a short thank you email (hopefully she is inundated)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2020 18:35

Oh that's fantastic! Well done to Johann and Scottish women!

GrouchyKiwi · 10/12/2020 18:37

I'm so delighted and surprised!

Also looking forward to seeing who voted which way.

Galvantula · 10/12/2020 18:40

I watched as far as Monica 🤢 and got annoyed then gave up and came here 😊

Bloody great news. What a vote considering the lack of response from many MSPs!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/12/2020 18:43

List of no voters here: wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-disgraces/

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/12/2020 18:48

Interesting...

I'm told by a source within the chamber, incidentally, that the Scottish Government caved after it became apparent that it was facing a rebellion of sufficient size that the amendment was going to pass.
(Comment on above link)

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 18:51

Holy fuck, not a single SNP vote against?

So Patrick Harvie, where were you?

They really chucked the greens under the bus.

GrouchyKiwi · 10/12/2020 18:52

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Interesting...

I'm told by a source within the chamber, incidentally, that the Scottish Government caved after it became apparent that it was facing a rebellion of sufficient size that the amendment was going to pass.
(Comment on above link)

This is positive, if true.
UppityPuppity · 10/12/2020 18:53

That’s a sorry list of Greens and Lib Dem’s.

The pictures of the men voting against this makes my skin crawl.

Neither of these utterly repugnant parties will ever get my vote again.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2020 18:56

Yes was that 8 men and one woman?

Sexnotgender · 10/12/2020 18:59

[quote ItsAllGoingToBeFine]List of no voters here: wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-disgraces/[/quote]
There’s 10 on that list? I thought it was only 9.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 19:00

I'm still disgusted by Monica Lennon, though. Scottish Labour continue to fall at the last hurdle.

Glad to see Monica being (politely) taken to task on Twitter. She should be ashamed of herself.

twitter.com/MonicaLennon7/status/1337091343890477057

ScoldsBridle · 10/12/2020 19:02

So on that WingsoverScotland Page it shows photos of 10 politicians who voted against or does that include the 1 that abstained too? And did Monica Lennon vote? She’s not on that list - am I showing my ignorance of the political process here?

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 19:05

Scolds, those are the people that voted against the amendment.

Monica Lennon (and Labour) voted for the amendment, but Lennon couldn't help noting that nasty women are bigoted and that transwomen have every right to examine women who've requested a female anyway.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 19:06

Sorry, if it's 10 I presume they are including the abstention.

The Scotgov /parliament website is currently down, or I'd check.

ScoldsBridle · 10/12/2020 19:08

So she actually voted for the amendment after saying all that? My impression was that she was going to vote against it - did I misremember that or is there some political doublespeak that means you can say you don’t support something but then vote for it?

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 19:09

I'm also baffled by why Rape Crisis sent a briefing this morning, insisting people should look the other way and oppose the amendment.

They seem to be arguing that the word 'gender' doesn't matter at all, and it doesn't matter so much that MPs should actively oppose the move to change it to sex.

Odd.

twitter.com/campervanwoman/status/1336635685076398082/photo/1

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2020 19:10

She voted for the amendment, yes. But she couldn't help but take the opportunity to tell off women for being bigots, and wanted to make sure that we all centred the feelings of transwomen who may feel hurt or excluded by the apparent attempt to exclude them from the pool of 'female' examiners.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 10/12/2020 19:11

allmywhat - there is evidence that woke staff are tampering with MPs correspondence? Really?

Who's going to do the documentary? Kirsty Wark or Louis Thereaux?

teawamutu · 10/12/2020 19:28

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Interesting...

I'm told by a source within the chamber, incidentally, that the Scottish Government caved after it became apparent that it was facing a rebellion of sufficient size that the amendment was going to pass.
(Comment on above link)

Between that and the SNP NEC elections, it seems the pushback against the woke takeover is underway.

Bloody fantastic. Well done, Scottish sisters Grin

UppityPuppity · 10/12/2020 19:31

Yes was that 8 men and one woman?

I think so - I found something particularly repellent in the optics of men voting for gender instead of sex as a basis to care for mainly female rape victims at the moment of acute distress.

This goes for male rape victims too - who often and understandably, also prefer to be seen by a female medic when most vulnerable.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 10/12/2020 19:33

Oh my goodness, one of my MSPs voted against.

To use modern day parlance, that makes me feel unsafe.