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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 24/06/2020 11:04

Can you imagine a group of (mostly) lefty (mostly) middle aged (mostly) female (mostly) parents genuinely threatening a drag queen with physical crucifixion? In Leeds?

It’s so fucking stupid. Pink News haven’t just jumped the shark they are magically levitating over it.

R0wantrees · 24/06/2020 11:11

The event, scheduled for 2pm, entered the radar of councillor Sarah Field. The Garforth and Swillington representative has ties with anti-trans groups.

She chaired a June 2019 meeting at Leeds Civic Hall, organised by “gender critical” group Leeds Spinners. At the meeting, according to transcripts, she said: “There is no such thing as living as a woman.

“We are women. And it is our female biology which makes us women. It is our sex.”

It was a brilliant speech by Cllr Sarah Fields.
Flowers

25-May-19 OP AverageAvenger wrote:

"Leeds Councillor thanks Mumsnet FWR in gender critical speech Sat
Full speech from today’s Declaration of a Sex Based Rights at Leeds Civic Hall, by Cllr Sarah Field:

Good afternoon everyone and welcome.

Firstly I’d like to thank everyone here for coming today, our panel and the Leeds Spinners for inviting me to Chair.

Our brilliant panel of academics will be speaking today about the Declaration of Sex Based Rights. But by way of introduction I am going to talk a little bit about Leeds and why I’m here.

So, I just want to start off by thanking the many women on the Mumsnet Feminism boards. You are a constant strength and inspiration.

About three years ago, not long after I was first elected, I was contacted by a woman in Leeds, for advice. Her six year old daughter had been verbally attacked and then subjected to a violent outburst by a 17 year old male who had been allowed to join a local girls group as a helper. This was because he said he identified as a female. What had this child done? She had asked him if he was a boy. And then this six year old girl had been made to stand alone in front of the entire group and apologise to him.

And I couldn’t get my head around this. So I began to do some research. And this was how I found my way to gender critical thinking and radical feminism.
And these are the following statements I’d like to make:

Every single person on the planet is unique. And I don’t care what they wear. And I don’t care who they love or have sex with, as long as they are consenting adults.

There is no such thing as living as a woman. We are women. And it is our female biology which makes us women. It is our sex. And biological sex is observable in every single cell in our bodies: it is a physical, material and biological fact. And our sex is what makes us a class. Our sex which makes us uniquely vulnerable to male violence. Our sex which means we bear the entire burden of reproductive labour. The structural oppression which women face as a class is because of their sex. And that is why all women need legal recourse to separate and sex segregated spaces.

It is simply not ethical to categorise males as females based on their subjective feelings. To do so means the female sex no longer has legal protections or legal meaning and is instead reduced to destructive, regressive gender stereotyping.

If you cannot define women, then you cannot defend them.

Which brings me to Leeds City Council, which famously prevented a meeting here last year to discuss changes to the Gender Recognition Act. When the WPUK meeting was cancelled I read the email from a Labour Councillor and then I read the flurry of replies and actions that not once asked for clarification or any other viewpoints - just this blind acceptance of a hateful narrative – and it became clear to me that it’s become a virtue to dismiss, intimidate and silence women.

That meeting was to discuss proposed changes to legislation and the government’s consultation. Its purpose was not to tell Trans people what is best for them, but to tell politicians and law makers what is best for women.The vast majority of those who ask questions about Self-ID are lifelong left leaning, are lesbians, trade unionists, LGB allies and of all faiths and none. These accusations we face - transphobes, bigots, TERFs, religious fundamentalists, hate preachers - are utter nonsense. And I’ve had enough.And I must say I absolutely refute in the strongest terms any accusations of homophobia against gender critical women. A huge number of them are lesbians. And I stand with my lesbian sisters. Just as I’ve always done for years of solidarity with the LGB community. And since the woke brigade of word salad identity politics seems to love a good cliché, I’ll throw in a mention of my magnificent gay best friend and godfather to both my children.

Leeds City Council has brought in Self-Identification. Anyone can change their sex, or “gender marker” as they call it, across all council services and departments by completing a short online form.

When I asked, under FOI, for the Equality Impact Assessments I was told they didn’t do any. When I asked, under FOI, how this might impact sex segregated services and spaces I was told Leeds City Council does not have any such spaces or services. When I asked, under FOI, for a comprehensive list of women’s and men’s clothes, as cross dressing is specifically defined in council policy as a protected characteristic, I was told no such list exists. When asked to define a woman, they said no such definition exists.

So to be clear: men in this city can access a woman’s changing facility, toilet, leisure facility or support group or service – anywhere they are vulnerable, traumatised, undressed or asleep - because men might at some point feel like they are something which the council says is indefinable, but might mean he once wore something which may or may not be something a woman might also wear.

Well, women fought for those spaces and they are not this council’s to give away.

It is absurd, it is dangerous and millions of women across the country are saying we have had enough. You cannot identify into an oppressed class because you cannot identify out of an oppressed class. And women are uniquely oppressed across the planet: reproductive health and autonomy, Female Genital Mutilation, violence, rape, child marriage, no right to vote, death in childbirth, post-natal illness, denied access to education, lower wages, chemical contraception, sex trafficking, surrogacy, pornography, prostitution and objectification.

I’ve had women in prisons and post-prison services in Leeds who have contacted me in fear and despair because they are confined with men who threaten them with rape, assault them, repeatedly expose their so called female penises and taunt them about playing the system and flushing their hormones down the toilet.

Our statistics will be skewed and we will lose a tool of analysis that provides us with the ability to challenge the very inequalities for which sex based provisions and quotas were created.

And of course there is a wider underbelly of misogyny in Leeds. The so called managed zone of prostituted, emaciated and addicted women is our flagship. In the last few months I’ve visited Holbeck twice, once at night where I observed several men out on the street openly watching pornography in their cars as women stumbled to them to be used and discarded for a fiver. During the day I was approached by punters three times in 10 minutes while simply standing by a car for some fresh air at 2pm. We are spending hundreds of thousands of pounds so men can buy the addicted bodies of the most vulnerable women in the city. Men know what a woman is in Holbeck.

I’m often asked how I would feel if I was born in the wrong body. And I say, I’ve been feeling like that every single day for as long as I can remember. You only have to go into a shop, turn on the TV, open a magazine, click on the internet and women are assaulted with GET A BIKINI BODY, 12 WEEKS UNTIL YOUR CHRISTMAS PARTY BODY, GET THE BODY YOU DREAM OF, THE BODY OF SOMEONE 20 YEARS YOUNGER, THE BODY YOU DESERVE. Botox, surgery, hair removal, Photoshop, permanent makeup, designer vagina. We get it.

I don’t think all men are rapists. I don’t think all men are intrinsically violent, creepy or degenerate. God knows I love my dad and my brother and my dear nine year old son. But 98% of sexual violence is committed by men. And there is no way to tell the good ones from the bad ones. There never will be. That’s why we need our spaces and services and boundaries, for our privacy, our dignity and our safety. It’s why we need to preserve the social norms which generally prevent men from entering our spaces and preserve our confidence to challenge men who do so. Bad men will do anything to gain access to women and girls. That’s why every institution in the world attracts those who will use power and access to abuse us. If they do it in schools, the care system, churches and families then they will sure as hell do it in prisons, toilets, refuges and changing rooms. They already are.

In terms of protecting females from a significant minority of dangerous males, these reasons don’t cease to operate when males self-identify as women. And self-identification removes any gatekeeping, safeguarding or requirement for any man to do anything other than complete a cursory administrative process via an online form.

I’m truly sorry for any man who feels imprisoned and tortured by masculinity. But that is something for men to deconstruct, to dismantle and to overthrow. And there are men doing it. There are transsexuals and cross dressers and allies against the male stereotypes which damage everyone. But it is not the moral duty of women to facilitate that. If your feminism prioritises the internal identifications of men over the material conditions of women then you are not a feminist. In a world of structural and systematic oppression, and an epidemic of male violence, we owe it to women and to the legacy of every feminist who has fought before us, to stand for ourselves.
Thank you."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3595007-Leeds-Councillor-thanks-Mumsnet-FWR-in-gender-critical-speech

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2020 11:12

It was a brilliant speech. Lots of love and best wishes to Sarah Thanks

R0wantrees · 24/06/2020 11:14

Video of the speech here

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOxdD9LB4v0

H/t JackyHolyoake

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2020 11:15

It’s so fucking stupid. Pink News haven’t just jumped the shark they are magically levitating over it.

Grin
GingerBeverage · 24/06/2020 11:17

Press complaint? www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2020 11:18

I don't think they are regulated by anyone. Certainly not ipso.

NotBadConsidering · 24/06/2020 11:19

Do angry boys scribbling their rage with digital crayons come under the auspices of IPSO?

CaraDune · 24/06/2020 11:20

Pink News aren't signed up to IPSO, Ginger. (Though arguably that puts their website in the category of "random frothing blog on the internet" rather than "news outlet".)

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 24/06/2020 11:20

It all reminds me of the Red Dwarf episode ‘Polymorph’ where Rimmer’s anger gets eaten by a shape shifting alien and he proposes defeating it thus:

‘Call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard and hit it fast... with a major - and I mean major...

...leaflet campaign.‘

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5WgUktfdDy4

We’re just writing letters and emails to politicians and organisations to communicate our concerns about safeguarding breaches for children and vulnerable adults and womens legal rights to privacy, dignity and safety. We aren’t telling anyone to die in a grease fire, banging on windows, letting off smoke bombs or assaulting anyone. We aren’t posing with barbedwire and baseball bats, we aren’t threatening rape and sexual assault in an attempt to silence people with an opposing viewpoint.

¯\(ツ)

We are most definitely not the ‘baddies’ here and that is completely obvious to onlookers and fence sitters.

JemimaShore · 24/06/2020 11:24

Fantastic speech by Cllr Sarah Field. Thank you Sarah Thanks

A woman who won't bow to the extremists.

NotBadConsidering · 24/06/2020 11:33

I don't think they are regulated by anyone

Certainly not an editor with standards, personal integrity, their peers...

R0wantrees · 24/06/2020 11:33

She chaired a June 2019 meeting at Leeds Civic Hall, organised by “gender critical” group Leeds Spinners. At the meeting, according to transcripts, she said: “There is no such thing as living as a woman.

“We are women. And it is our female biology which makes us women. It is our sex.”

The event was the UK launch of 'Declaration of Women’s Sex-based Rights'

It took place 25th May 2019
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582159-Declaration-of-Sex-Based-Rights-event-Leeds?pg=2

It is an international human rights campaign, first launched in New York USA featuring the work of Dr. Sheila Jeffreys, Dr. Heather Brunskell-Evans, and Maureen O’Hara:

Dr Heather Brunskell-Evans:
"SUMMARY DECLARATION ON WOMEN’S SEX BASED RIGHTS
"The Declaration outlines current international laws and policies on women’s rights and how they are being threatened by organisations that are trying to change the definition of woman. It reaffirms existing women’s rights and suggests ways that states should promote and protect them. It was drafted with input from women internationally. Launching in March 2019, the Declaration is a clear call to law and policy makers to retain the sex-based biological definition of woman."
www.heather-brunskell-evans.co.uk/thoughts/declaration-of-womens-sex-based-rights-nyc-march-2019/

(extract)
"Women’s rights, set out in the 1979 Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) and subsequent international agreements, are based on our sex, defined by the UN as “the physical and biological characteristics that distinguish males from females”[1].

In recent years organisations have been quietly trying to replace the idea of biological sex with the idea of “gender identity” in human rights documents; and to include men who say they have a female “gender identity” in the word “woman”.

Many women’s rights are related to our biologically female bodies e.g. the right to abortion, and maternal rights. Other women’s rights are aimed at eliminating discrimination against women in public life e.g. women’s rights to education, political representation, work, equal pay. Further women’s rights are to protect us against violence or harmful practices e.g. rape, and FGM.

A key way women and girls are denied rights is by gender or sex role stereotyping (e.g. girls should help at home while boys go to school). The UN recognises this is harmful and works for “the elimination of prejudices and customary and all other practices which are based on the idea of the inferiority or the superiority of either of the sexes or on stereotyped roles for men and women.”[2] The Declaration raises concern that the term “gender identity” reinforces sex role stereotyping because it is only possible to have a “gender identity” by choosing between sex role stereotypes for men and women." (continues)

further information and details how to support the campaign:
www.womensdeclaration.com/en/declaration-womens-sex-based-rights-summary/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2020 11:37

Do angry boys scribbling their rage with digital crayons

Perfect description!

DickKerrLadies · 24/06/2020 11:47

‘Call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard and hit it fast... with a major - and I mean major...

...leaflet campaign.‘

Ahh, the Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society. I'm not sure we'd be allowed to use that acronym these days though.

GingerBeverage · 24/06/2020 12:11

How convenient, Cara
Hmm
So no way of seeing any proof.

R0wantrees · 24/06/2020 13:11

Sun 21-Jun-20 12:03:14 OP DeployTheTut wrote:

"Leeds Library hosts Drag Queen Story Hour on June 22nd

I could weep, I really could.
Leeds City Council is planning a Drag Queen Story Hour with “Aida H Dee”, to take place tomorrow, 22nd June.
www.facebook.com/349596960793/posts/10157474162555794/?d=n

Local hero, Councillor Sarah Field, is requesting any comments or complaints you may have, to assist her in objecting to this event. [email protected]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3945350-Leeds-Library-hosts-Drag-Queen-Story-Hour-on-June-22nd

MNHQ have commented on this thread:
Hi all,

Thanks for the reports.

A number of accusations have been made in this thread, so we're taking it down for now whilst we check behind the scenes.

[Edit - we are now leaving the thread open but will be closing further comments for the time being]

stumbledin · 24/06/2020 13:12

SunsetBeetch - I think you missed the point I was making by only thinking of your own point.

Irrespective of income what we are all doing by commenting, archiving etc., is giving them the notice they want.

And the more important point is that once they have published something because, a bit like Stonewall, they were once a source of news and info about the LGB community they are still given credibility.

Perhaps it would be more constructive to ensure each time PN is quoted as a source of new or comment, we contact who ever is using them as a reference point and explain why they are not a credible source.

There are regular threads on here about yet another PN nonsense (I've done it myself) but by bothering to notice them we in fact contribute to them maintaining the appearance of having significance.

And by the way clicking on a web site doesn't generate money. It only generates money if you click on one of the ads on their site to look at a product of service.

If companies advertising are not getting any clickthrough from ads on a specific site they dont repeat.

A lot of what looks like ads look more like automatically generated links based on the article content.

purpleboy · 24/06/2020 13:14

That is a fantastic speech. Thanks Sarah.

R0wantrees · 24/06/2020 13:33

Another of Cllr Sarah Fields' brilliant speeches here demonstrating her commitment to women and children in Leeds and beyond:

OP AverageAvenger wrote Wed 14-Nov-18
"You have an ally on Leeds City Council

When five prostituted women in Ipswich were murdered in 2006, what did Ipswich council do? It completely eradicated prostitution from its streets.

Ipswich did this through serious investment and multi-agency dedication to the Nordic Model.

I am calling on this council to learn from Ipswich.Visit them and work with them and their police force. I am calling for this council to abolish the shocking and scandalous “managed zone” and commit to the Nordic model, which seeks the following:

  • The decriminalisation of those who areprostituted
  • High-quality services and ring-fenced funding for those in prostitution
  • Buying sex to be made a criminal offence
  • Procuring, pimping and sex trafficking legislation to bestrengthened and the policing of these crimes to be fully resourced and prioritised
  • A widespread holistic approach of public information campaigns, education programmes in schools and training for the police

Leeds has become a city where women cannot even meet to discuss changes to government legislation, but where men are openly raping women, soliciting for sex with children and offering to buy babies.

Our city has become a notorious illustration of misogyny and this scourge must be stopped immediately.

Our women deserve better, our children deserve better, our communities deserve better and the only way forward is to end this sanctioning of sexual violence that should be morally despised.

In memory of Tania Nicol, Gemma Adams, Anneli Alderton, Annette Nichols, Paula Clennell and Daria Pionko."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3424059-You-have-an-ally-on-Leeds-City-Council

TooCloseToTheProject · 24/06/2020 13:41

www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/drag-queen-shocked-leeds-council-18467611

Looks like PN are not the only ones picking up this story. Surprisingly there's no mention of the event being reinstated....unless I missed something and it was cancelled for a second time? Absolutely no mention of the safeguarding concerns Hmm

bishopgiggles · 24/06/2020 13:41

The crucify bit is a huge misinterpretation (deliberate or not?) of the following comment on the person’s Drag Name. As it stands it doesn’t say what they’re saying it says and it’s actually meant to say ‘anyone ELSE would be crucified’

‘I'm sorry but anyone also mocking ADHD would be crucified. Why do they get a pass? It's highly inappropriate. All of it.‘

I just saw the post on the original thread annd laughed my head off when I realised I found the 'smoking gun'! PN have really, really got to be trolling everyone with this absolute shite. Right?

PronounssheRa · 24/06/2020 13:43

PN are in it for the clicks, they are desperate for revenue, the more outrageous the story the more clicks.

My dog is a more reliable source of news.

OldCrone · 24/06/2020 13:59

Surprisingly there's no mention of the event being reinstated....unless I missed something and it was cancelled for a second time?

It went ahead on the DQSH facebook page.

WeirdAndPissedOff · 24/06/2020 14:39

This is disgusting. I suppose they needed to do it - after all, those nasty T**fs keep using their doxxing, death and rape threats against them, so they need us to be just as bad.

But what they've posted is so stretched it doesn't even resemble the truth, and no coments section, regulatory body etc to get a correction put out. And whilst poor Aida is trembling in fright after having his/her public Facebook images of his/her fetishes brought up in order to question whether appropriate safeguarding had been done prior to inviting him/her to read to small children ("doxxing", apparently), and reading a forum post which says "I'm sorry but anyone also mocking ADHD would be crucified. Why do they get a pass? It's highly inappropriate. All of it." (Death threats/calls for crucifixion, apparently), the article makes a massive point of repeating Sarah's name throughout the article, linking it with these supposed hate crimes, transphobia, and death threats - now what do we suppose the outcome of that will be?

I think Sarah is amazing, and I really hope the backlash from this won't affect her too badly. Sad

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