Confused

[PeakedinthePeaks]

Hi, I'm new to all the current debates around feminism and feminism itself and have lurked a lot and posted a little.
I'm confused over a conversation I had with a colleague last week discussing self ID and the concerns women are raising. Is it possible to be a feminist and have no issue with all inclusive toilets and changing rooms and to believe that trans women are women? I didn't think so but like I said, I'm new to the subject and realise the answers are probably in other posts somewhere but couldn't find a title to match my question.
I am very uncomfortable with all inclusive toilets and have been following GRA discussions.
Can you be a feminist and support the GRA?

HairyLittlePoet

Wow. That is fantastic. May I share it?

Wow, hairy poet that's brilliant

I always picture the smugly smug person sweeping out after tossing their hair and dramatically whipping their coattails to the side.

(And then promptly falling flat on their arse.)

Share away, Datun

I'll post it here but not sure if it will stick long!

I will not say it, tran-I-am

I am woman
you are man
we cannot change that, tran-I-am
you'd make me say that we're the same
I do not want to play that game

but what if I can wear a skirt?
and tell you that my feelings hurt?
what if my long hair I curl
can't you see I'm now a girl?
what if I begin to knit?
you'll agree that makes me it
what if I put on a bra?
say that changes who we are

a woman cannot be a man
it cannot happen tran-I-am

what if my identity
tells me you're the same as me?
what if all my friends agree,
will you say that you're like me?
what if I am really funny?
what if I withhold your money?

I will not say it tran-I-am
I will not say you're not a man

what if I am in your space?
would you say it to my face?
what if all the legal courts
say I can be in your sports?
what if laws are made for me
stopping you from stopping me?
what if a panel all agreed
gave me the paper I said I need?

I do not like to make a fuss
but you do not belong with us
and when my sisters tell you no
the thing for you to do is go

what if doctors all agree
I hate my body, can't you see?
what if I cut off my willy?
I'm a woman then, you silly
what if men all over earth
tell me I was mixed at birth?

what I am is not like you
you say you're me
but that's not true
you say that we are both the same
we're clearly not and that is plain

what if truth becomes a crime?
would you say it, given time?
what if I hit you in the head?
what if I claim you want me dead?
would you say it for a judge?
why oh why will you not budge?

would you say it if I danced?
would you say it in a trance?
would you say it pretty please?
will you say it on your knees?
would you say it to a fox?
would you say it if I doxx?
would you say it if I'm pretty?
would you if I called you shitty?
what if I call you a name,
will you say we are the same?
would you say it if I hid?
would you say it to a kid?
would you say it if I'm backed?
would you say it when you're sacked?
would you say it to a mayor?
would you say it anywhere?
I'm not like the others, see
will you say it just for me?

say it!
say it!
say it please!
just repeat it after me

not if you dance
not in a trance
not if you plead
not if I bleed
not to a fox
not if you doxx
not if you're backed
not if I'm sacked
not for your please
not on my knees
not to a judge
I will not budge
I would not say it if you hid
I'll never say it to a kid
I would not say it to a mayor
I will not say it anywhere!

I will not say you're not a man
I will not say it, tran-I-am!

say it!
say it!
make it true
say that I am just like you

I do not want to tell a lie
and say that you're the same as I
there's nothing that a man can do
to make him me when he is you
I will not say it just for you
I will not say what isn't true
I will not say it from a jail
I will always know you're male

Extra points for getting the knitting in!

There's a few hyperlinks I can add when I get time!

There's a similar one for the attempts to talk lesbians into loving cock, maybe someone still has a link.

I do not like to make a fuss
but you do not belong with us
and when my sisters tell you no
the thing for you to do is go

The problem is this isn’t true
Not all females feel the same as you
I saw your stickers in the loo
You can be a feminist and a trans ally too.

My boundaries are absolute
I'm saying no, your point is moot
You will not disregard consent
You bullying, male-born, malcontent

The females who will lie to you
Are welcome to a brand new loo
where you can all share happily
but you're not coming in with me.

...and if you feel you must persist
you'll find I'm going to still resist
for English language doth bestow
a thousand words that rhyme with no

If even one of us says no
Then I'm afraid they'll have to go

The problem we have Hairy
Is you are you and I am me
So you can only speak for you
Please don’t claim to speak for me too.

You're right nothing, it is very limited. This is the only study I know of.

Transsexual individuals were at increased risk of being convicted for any crime or violent crime after sex reassignment (Table 2); this was, however, only significant in the group who underwent sex reassignment before 1989.

Gender differences

Comparisons of female-to-males and male-to-females, although hampered by low statistical power and associated wide confidence intervals, suggested mostly similar risks for adverse outcomes (Tables S1andS2). However, violence against self (suicidal behaviour) and others ([violent] crime) constituted important exceptions. First, male-to-females had significantly increased risks for suicide attempts compared to both female (aHR 9.3; 95% CI 4.4–19.9) and male (aHR 10.4; 95% CI 4.9–22.1) controls. By contrast, female-to-males had significantly increased risk of suicide attempts only compared to male controls (aHR 6.8; 95% CI 2.1–21.6) but not compared to female controls (aHR 1.9; 95% CI 0.7–4.8). This suggests that male-to-females are at higher risk for suicide attempts after sex reassignment, whereas female-to-males maintain a female pattern of suicide attempts after sex reassignment (Tables S1andS2).

Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime. By contrast, female-to-males had higher crime rates than female controls (aHR 4.1; 95% CI 2.5–6.9) but did not differ from male controls. This indicates a shift to a male pattern regarding criminality and that sex reassignment is coupled to increased crime rate in female-to-males. The same was true regarding violent crime.

Hope I've copied the right bit - in a car so hard.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

(Don't give up your day job)

I wouldn't dream to speak for you
You can pretend, and others too
But here's the rub; when I say no
consent is absent - he must go.

That’s fine Hairy I don’t care
I’ll just say yes when you’re not there
Lots of lovely neutral spaces
Full of happy friendly faces

jolly good, good luck to you
I bet your friends are happy too
I'm sure the grins in selfie pics
aren't half as happy as their dicks

Come on let’s not be pricks
And stop the obsession with the dicks
The problem with female only spaces
Is lots of women have hairy faces
And muscled men of considerable girth
We’re assigned to be female at birth
The only way to stop the vex
Is make some toilets unisex
Let’s stop all the hate and incense
And show a bit of common sense

Channelling baldrick, ‘the guns.’

No no no no
No no no
No no no no
No no no

Hate and incense? Wut?

I don't really like the concept of privilege, but I wish women who are so keen to give away other women's rights because they themselves aren't fussed would appreciate their considerably privileged position of this not being an issue for them.

Apologies for not doing this in verse.

The problem with female only spaces
Is lots of women have hairy faces

That's not a problem if the women have hairy faces because they're menopausal. It is a problem if the hairy faces are male beards.

Women are saying No and men are insisting. Typical male behaviour.

Hairy, I love this.

Dakinis, our consent is not in your gift. You should campaign for spaces where you can share with male bodied people if that's what you want so much. You can't give away our privacy and boundaries.

Charliethefeminist Exactly, this can be solved in a simple (though perhaps expensive) way. Have 3 sets of toilets/changing rooms etc. Mixed sex for anyone, women only and men only (biological definitions). Those with no problem with mixed sex are free to use them (my betting is the queues will be shorter) and everyone who wants to use single sex can do so. Problem solved.

The only way to stop the vex
Is make some toilets unisex

Unisex? You transphobe you,
It's not about using the loo,
Validation is where it's at,
And unisex won't give you that

I still don't see how supporting GRA reform is giving away women's rights as we don't currently have any legal right to exclude trans women from our spaces. In fact under the current law trans women are directed to 'live as a woman' for 2 years prior to obtaining a GRC.

How can I possibly give away something we don't currently possess...?