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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Confused

358 replies

PeakedinthePeaks · 19/09/2018 12:43

Hi, I'm new to all the current debates around feminism and feminism itself and have lurked a lot and posted a little.
I'm confused over a conversation I had with a colleague last week discussing self ID and the concerns women are raising. Is it possible to be a feminist and have no issue with all inclusive toilets and changing rooms and to believe that trans women are women? I didn't think so but like I said, I'm new to the subject and realise the answers are probably in other posts somewhere but couldn't find a title to match my question.
I am very uncomfortable with all inclusive toilets and have been following GRA discussions.
Can you be a feminist and support the GRA?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
MipMipMip · 20/09/2018 15:46

That was possibly the best page in mumsnet history.

As you were.

BettyDuMonde · 20/09/2018 15:57

Better than ‘Penis Beaker’, even,

Star
Datun · 20/09/2018 15:58

Dakinis

As other people have pointed out, my consent isn't yours to give. That's the concept.

The law is different. But the law needs to change now.

Your argument that this is the way it is, so shut up, doesn't work. Certainly for me.

Even with the law as it stands, there should not be rapists without a GRC in female prisons. There should not be men competing against women in sport.

The Labour Party shouldn't have decided to illegally break equality law by claiming all women shortlists are open to men without a GRC.

Exemptions are discretionary. And they are not being used. They need to be upfront and centre.

Protocols and customs need to make very certain that if women are not comfortable with men in their space, they have every right to tell them to fuck off.

My seven-year-old niece is not responsible for confronting a man in her space. Neither should she ever feel as though she can't say you're a man. Neither should be groomed to accept that certain people with penises are acceptable when she's half naked.

Ridiculous propaganda going to schools teaching children that they can change sex need to stop and the people responsible should be prosecuted.

Gender neutral toilets should only ever be in addition to sex segregated. Girls in school should not have to feel as though they are being phobic if they don't want to get changed with a teenager who yesterday was a boy in their class.

I, and many women are done with compromising.

I may not speak for you, but you cannot override my consent. This is not a two way street.

The fact that you think you can, is worrying

Juells · 20/09/2018 16:00

Mixed sex for anyone, women only and men only (biological definitions).

Or make the men's toilets mixed sex, and keep the the women's single sex. Why would that not work?

Juells · 20/09/2018 16:01

The women who 'don't mind' can use the mixed sex toilets then, and leave the rest of us horrible cunty bitches to ourselves.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/09/2018 16:04

Yeah!

Male : Female: Woke!

The New Loo signs Smile

OldCrone · 20/09/2018 16:06

Dakinis
Now you're back, can you answer my question?

Who would benefit from self ID?

You say the the amendment is 'inconsequential', so why not leave the law as it is now?

If the law is to be changed, it should be up to those who want to change it to show that there is a net benefit. If there is not, then the law should remain as it is. So who would benefit, and in what way, from the proposed change to self ID?

This is the third time I've asked, so I hope you'll answer this time.

Who benefits from self ID?

Lancelottie · 20/09/2018 16:11

Or Women and Whoa! Men! ?

Dakinis · 20/09/2018 16:12

Sorry I'm going back to verse

Datun no offence is meant
I’m not trying to override your consent
Leftie feminists can easily see
The need for privacy when having a wee
(Though I’ve heard many a trans women say
They’ve not used a public loo all day)
I know I am a crashing bore
For simply pointing out the law
But the rules are there and plain to see
Trans women have the same rights as you and me
The lesbians I know all agree
We want to keep the L with the T
So let’s not divide and all fall out
Let’s work together to kick predatory males out

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/09/2018 16:21

Dakinis

Offence is taken when I am sure
Your intent is clear, it is to abjure
My thought and my belief
That men in a woman's space often bring grief.

You cannot simply choose to ignore
The harm currently done by this law
When men rape women in the women's estate
And the law does nothing to negate

You can focus on this being about the loo
But again and again

WE SEE YOU!!

HairyLittlePoet · 20/09/2018 16:22

I'm struggling now to know what's worse
Unwanted dicks or dreadful verse

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/09/2018 16:24

Oh, pshaw! Grin

UpstartCrow · 20/09/2018 16:26

Let’s work together to kick predatory males out

We don't see you doing that now. Why not?

Solve the problem of violent and predatory males. Then solve the 'problem' of single sex spaces. Stop putting the cart before the horse, you are putting women at risk.

HairyLittlePoet · 20/09/2018 16:29

Please forgive that clumsy edition
Not my intended juxtaposition!

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 16:29

Dakinis that was a great idea just put forward. Let's keep female (real female) only facilities and turn the mens into mixed sex. Then you can get changed or go to to the loo or to prison or whatever with men and trans'women'. TW get to share with women (thanks for taking that on) and women who do not consent to share with males can keep their sex-specific spaces.

Datun · 20/09/2018 16:30

Dakinis

If I let a man in my bog
(Quite apart from the stench of his log)
My pink lady brain's
not up to the strain
Of concluding, a prince or a frog?

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 16:30

I can't see anything wrong with that, Dakinis. Can you?

OldCrone · 20/09/2018 16:30

I'm still finding it hard to see
Who will benefit from self ID
Apart from men who wish to rape
And prey on women who can't escape

So Dakinis will you please tell me
Who will benefit from self ID?

Dakinis · 20/09/2018 16:30

You’re never going to make amends
By alienating leftie friends
What on earth is there to gain
We’ll end up on TRA terrain
Let’s not make it ‘us and them'
Let's all unite against violent men

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 16:32

My consent is mine alone
On this I cannot shift
You know that which you do not own
Is not within your gift

Dakinis · 20/09/2018 16:33

Self ID is purely admin
It makes no difference to us women

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 16:34

If you knew what a 'man' is
I think your plan might work
But as you don't and never will
It makes you look a berk

Juells · 20/09/2018 16:36

The lesbians I know all agree
We want to keep the L with the T

You must know only very young 'woke' lesbians then. Or transwomen who say they're lesbian.

You’re never going to make amends
By alienating leftie friends

Why should we care? They're not friends if they're not supporting women.

Juells · 20/09/2018 16:37

Self ID is purely admin
It makes no difference to us women

🙄 Us women keep telling you it does, so why do you keep on insisting it doesn't?

Charliethefeminist · 20/09/2018 16:41

So Dakinis

1 consent
2 listen to women
3 make male toilets mixed sex and keep the female sex specific

Are we cool then

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