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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Mail article; Karen White ‘gender change was a sham’

122 replies

Winterlight · 14/09/2018 23:37

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6169813/Rapist-Karen-Whites-ex-girlfriend-says-gender-change-sham.html

OP posts:

theOtherPamAyres · 15/09/2018 00:02

That is an astonishingly well-researched and detailed article. There are contributions from Nic from Fairplay for Women and Frances Crook from the Howard league for penal reform

There is a good explanation of the process for deciding where a transgender ought to be incarcerated.

There is a full picture of the extent of White's offending - his brutality, intimidation of residents and neighbours and history of domestic violence.

His transgenderism was a sham, starting off as a ruse to claim disability and other benefits.

An all round good quality report where there is no need for sensationalising because the facts speak for themselves.

Thumbs up, Daily Mail

JillyArmeeen · 15/09/2018 00:14

So he was pretending to be trans for his own gains.
But that never ever happens.
Im beyond furious that this was allowed to happen, and let's face it, will probably keep happening.
Since when did we segregate Prisons by gender?
Props to all the journalists that have covered this and the sources for speaking out.

FunkyBoldRibenas · 15/09/2018 00:14

But, doesn't them moving KW to a male prison, totally demolish Penny Mordant's claim that TWAW?

You cannot pick and choose. Either TWAW is true, or it isn't.

IAmLurkacus · 15/09/2018 00:34

Well done Daily Mail, very well done. And excellent use of pronouns

Aeroflotgirl · 15/09/2018 00:35

Sorry, what is TWAW? He should never have been put into New Hall women's prison in the first place. Prisoners safety should always be paramount.

Bitchywaitress · 15/09/2018 00:57

TWAW
Trans Women Are Women. Apparently

NotBadConsidering · 15/09/2018 00:58

On one occasion he called 999 to report a hate crime when an elderly resident in the housing complex referred to him as 'he' instead of 'she'

FFS.

HouseOfMouse · 15/09/2018 01:00

Good article, very comprehensive on the background. And his “transition” was a sham? How completely unsurprising.

mimivanne · 15/09/2018 01:17

Well done Daily Mail

LassWiADelicateAir · 15/09/2018 01:21

That was a very neutral, objective and factual article.

I never looked at The Mail website before joining MN. What I have noticed is the Mail reports on crimes against women and children which other media just ignore.

Bowlofbabelfish · 15/09/2018 01:21

Look at the language used in this piece - pronouns are biologically correct and there’s no referring to concerned women as fringe feminists- it’s ‘women.’
A significant shift in HOW this is getting reported.

White is clearly a very dangerous individual and the prison service needs to answer some questions on how and why they were placed in a women’s prison with a Mum and baby unit. There needs to be an inquiry.

Well done the DM. Some good journalism here.

JoggerBottom · 15/09/2018 05:21

Detailed article. I can't at the moment, but can anyone post this to chat? Maybe with a link to the consultation in the OP?

JoggerBottom · 15/09/2018 05:22

...if it isn't already on there that is!

PeakPants · 15/09/2018 05:47

Good BUT I don’t think it’s helpful to keep making distinctions between ‘real trans’ and ‘fake trans’. Real trans (whatever that means) is also male and males should not be in female spaces. If we keep talking about being concerned about men faking being transgender for their own gain, aren’t we implying that we have no issue with a genuine trans woman being in our spaces? Real transgender means gender dysphoria. Maybe Karen White faked it but who actually knows. You can be as dysphoric as anything and still be dangerous. The thing that matters is male biology and that remains the same no matter whether someone is real or fake trans.

Floisme · 15/09/2018 05:48

Good article but a shame there!s no comment from Stonewall. I would love to hear their take on this.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/09/2018 05:58

I don’t think it’s helpful to keep making distinctions between ‘real trans’ and ‘fake trans’.

In the context of 'self-id' - which seems to have passed into common practice ahead of the proposed change in the law, and the vilification of anyone who dares object - I think it is very helpful. 'Real trans' people do need real rights, albeit not identical to those of the sex they want to be. There has to be correct diagnosis and appropriate treatment for these people.

ellaoldie · 15/09/2018 05:59

It says he was moved back to a male prison as the prison assaults were committed "as a man". Presumably because no TW would do such a thing!The argument that White is not really trans made here allows the fiction that TWAW to continue.

PeakPants · 15/09/2018 06:10

Point taken Errol but we can never know whether Karen White is real or fake. Being trans doesn’t mean you have to have surgery or take hormones. How do we determine whether someone is genuinely trans or faking it for personal gain? The answer is that we can’t and the point is that being real trans doesn’t necessarily make a person’s presence less of a risk.

We can have provision and rights for people who are trans in the form of third spaces and medical and psychological support for people with gender dysphoria. However, when talking about single sex spaces, they should be single sex, no matter how dysphoric or genuine a person may be.

DoctorTwo · 15/09/2018 06:18

Good article but a shame there!s no comment from Stonewall. I would love to hear their take on this.

Seeing as they appear to be apologists for this abusive man, and let's face it, he is a man just like me I'm not surprised. He should've been housed in the male prison population and fuck his pronouns.

DoctorTwo · 15/09/2018 06:19

Oh, and if you're triggered by 'mis-gendering', I've correct sexed him.

InProgress · 15/09/2018 06:40

Well done Daily Mail.

nopeni · 15/09/2018 06:44

That is an unexpectedly well-written article. I hope he can't figure out which ex girlfriend talked against him.

I guess the thing is he would have seemed "real trans" with that level of commitment. It wouldn't take much for a committed liar to go to a few appointments as well.

Hopefully that's part of the point, manipulative men could fake any tests, and there's no way to tell real from fake.

Can anyone comment with a link to the consultation?

ErrolTheDragon · 15/09/2018 06:50

I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of sanity complaining about 'misgendering' or 'deadnaming' this vile man, DoctorTwo. If anyone does, they're just exposing themselves as people who don't give a shit about women's rights and safety.

FlowerpotFairyHouse · 15/09/2018 06:51

Excellent article!

However...

'Other than wear a wig and put on women's clothing, he made no more effort.'

Some men don't even make that much effort!

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 15/09/2018 07:18

I don't know why the government are bothering to have a consultation on self id when they obviously have implemented already.

The refusal to debate this in the commons means that MPs believe the current practice of any man who declares themselves to be trans is therefore a women and has the right to be in female facilities regardless of the crimes they commit and the safety of women.

The only thing that stops this rapists being a genuine transperson is that they haven't been through the official process and requested a GRC.

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