Mail article; Karen White ‘gender change was a sham’

[Winterlight]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6169813/Rapist-Karen-Whites-ex-girlfriend-says-gender-change-sham.html

Good article. I think dismissing the DM is just a lazy thing people do now without actually looking at alot of their content. I agree with the poster who said they cover loads of VAWG that other media don't. They are also the most widely read news website in the UK so I'm grateful that they run stories like this to bring them to a wider audience.

Transactivists like Amy Challoner and Jess Bradley have manipulated the authorities. And people like Jane Fae who have spent a chunk of their career advocating for extreme porn.

The Mail article quotes part of the ECHR policy, which talks about men's 'desire' as the criterion to access women. Openly conceding that it's subjective and all about what they actually just want.

But, citing Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, the policy states: 'The primary focus of this policy are offenders who identify as transgender and who have expressed a consistent desire to live permanently in the gender they identify with, which is opposite to the biological sex assigned to them at birth.'

It then goes on to say that violent men should get access to women, irrespective of how violent they are.

Yet hidden away in the Ministry of Justice's latest prisons policy, PSI 17-2016, is a line that, disturbingly, suggests the same decision could be made again in future.

'Women offenders who present a high risk of harm to other women are managed safely in the female estate.

'Transgender women who present similar risks should be managed in a similar way in the female estate."

Breathtaking misogyny.

This is the reason women say there is no such thing as transgender. Gender dysphoria is real, but shouldn't ever be considered the reason to house men with women. It's a delusion.

Transgender, is not gender dysphoria.

Transgender can just as easily be a word describing a man's desire to access women. Whether it's to assault them or fetishise them. It's meaningless.

Errol tge government need to provide the facilities, as they are pushing ahead with self id, and not debating it in parliament. All very well to say self I'd self I'd, but there needs to be the facilities for Transwomen, away from biological women.Funny how you yiu don't see Transmen clamouring to go to mens prison!

There are LOTS of 'transwomen' who are like this. Not just rapists.

Exactly. Stonewall's umbrella openly points this out.

And until the authorities face up to the fact that men with multiple paraphilias represent a heightened risk of sex offending - whether or not one of those paraphilias is crossdressing and therefore trans-related, according to Stonewall - cases like Karen White's will continue to occur regularly and the prison trans population will continue to have a much larger proportion of sex offenders than the male population as a whole.

This cannot be unsayable if we are to have any safeguarding at all, but it pretty much is.

Funny how you yiu don't see Transmen clamouring to go to mens prison!

That really should be the pivot on which the argument fails.

Prison authorities should be sending transmen to men's prisons, irrespective.

They're not going to party because I don't think there are any in prison, but also they're giving them a choice.

Which doesn't really suit the words 'gender with which they identify.'

It's not gender with which they identify, except when it's inconvenient.

If they won't automatically send transmen to a male prison, why won't they?

This wilful determination to ignore the power dynamic between men and women shows exactly how powerful that dynamic is.

Datun this is why I voted Brexit, I did not want this type of thing as we are linked to Europe. So what about the rights of women to be safe then free from harm! TRA are nothing but misogenistic bullies, who are using this platform to exert their power and control over women. It is abuse of women and I am shocked nobody in authority is seeing this! The way that TRA bully and harm anybody that speaks out against them, speaks volumes. They are using their male privilege at the same time want the good parts of being a woman, wanting their cake and eat it.

A good article - the oxygen of publicity is powerful indeed. Sadly, while trans groups are sitting inside government and beside politicians with their hands over the microphone saying "Of course you don't want to say that. Think about how upset trans people (the most vulnerable group ever) will be. Remember criticism - even of a trans paedophile is literal violence. There will be consequences for you".

Until and unless trans groups are crow barred out of their well paid positions of power, they will continue to have their hands round the throats of politicians - thus stifling debate.

there needs to be the facilities for Transwomen, away from biological women

Yes. And it needs to be pushed back to (for services and facilities where segregation is required, not all of which are government responsibilities):

Firstly: Males need to be segregated from females. Two biological sexes, perfectly clear.

With that as the basic position : in addition, there is a subsection of males who want segregation from other males. So they will require appropriate accommodations. How that's accomplished and how they decide where to draw the lines... not women's problem.

This should protect women and TW. It would quite probably also have the effect of drastically reducing the number of fakers.

bird

Yet again women and children are not believed. It's all about the men.

I hate the term 'biological women' It makes me feel like a washing powder.

I'm a woman.

Aeroflotgirl the European Court of Human rights is not a European Union institution.
Ireland has self Id but men are not allowed in women’s prisons as I understand it.
There can be different interpretations of judgements.

I'm not sure how helpful it is (and I know others have made the same point upthread) to say Karen White wasn't a real transwoman. It allows people to say "but that wasn't a real transwoman, a real transwoman wouldn't have done that". There can be no quarter given for male-bodied people in women's spaces.

Aeroflotgirl the European Court of Human rights is not a European Union institution.Ireland has self Id but men are not allowed in women’s prisons as I understand it.There can be different interpretations of judgements.

Over the years I've seen discussions online that the UK interprets everything in the most severe way, so "our hands are tied". Other countries seem to be able to find wriggle room to allow common sense interpretations.

Was it a ECHR ruling that originally led to the GRA? I’m sure I remember reading that somewhere?

NO common sense from our Government, and are bowing to the bullying nasty and loud TRAs, no backbone! They are afraid of upsetting the loud minority, totally ignoring safety and rights of women.

But, citing Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, the policy states: 'The primary focus of this policy are offenders who identify as transgender and who have expressed a consistent desire to live permanently in the gender they identify with, which is opposite to the biological sex assigned to them at birth.'

I don't get this. How can gender be opposite to sex? And why would gender have precedence over sex?

Well done to the Daily Mail for this article.

C'mon, Stonewall, let's hear your comments on Karen White.

Here's Article 8 of the ECHR:

Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

1. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

I don't suppose they meant 2 to only apply to men with 1 using 'his' throughout...

If the ECHR gave a flying fuck about women and girls the word used would be ‘their’ not ‘his’.

The truth is the Mail does a hell of a lot of good reporting, I’ve only realised this in the past couple of years. The linked article about the woman abducted and raped by a grooming gang is also excellent. It puts the Guardisn to shame.

Wow - the Daily Mail’s new editor is showing! This is proper reporting. It will have taken persistence and sensitivity to get that interview, and it is scrupulously done.

Who is the Daily Mails new editor?

The article is well written and thorough.

Georgie Greig, former editor of the Mail on Sunday. Started 5 Sept