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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Motion against Liverpool ReSisters by Liverpool City Council

340 replies

LiverpoolReSisters · 13/09/2018 11:59

Council motion can be found here: councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=305&MId=16817&Ver=4

Our reply:

Dear Councillors,

I am writing to you on behalf of a group of local women who have grave concerns about the government’s proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

The government have recently launched a consultation on changes to this law which will effectively render women’s sex-based rights under the Equality Act 2010 redundant. Under the proposals for ‘self identification’ or ‘self ID’ of gender, any person can legally change their sex by simply signing a form, with no checks or balances. This has many consequences for our community, and we feel some of our Council representatives have not considered the full implications of this issue and have made hasty public comments as a result. The motion put forward by these council members is well-meaning, but has clearly not been assessed for the wider impact it will have on the community they represent.

We would like to comment on item 14 in the City Council Meeting Agenda, dated Wednesday 19 September, 2018.

“Hate crime can be devastating for victims and their families and has the potential to divide and damage communities and neighbourhoods.”

We, as members of the group Liverpool ReSisters, agree that hate crime has the potential to divide and damage individuals and communities.

As defined on gov.uk, a hate crime is a crime committed against someone because of their disability, gender-identity, race, religion or belief, or sexual orientation.

Is Liverpool City Council accusing Liverpool ReSisters of a hate crime? Naming our group in the Agenda item directly below this commentary is a clear effort to tie our name with criminal activity.

“A hateful campaign has been set up by Liverpool ReSisters that has seen stickers regarding Trans women and gender recognition defacing public art works and buildings across Merseyside.”

We would like to point out the following facts:

  1. We have not “set up” a “hateful campaign”. On August 17 2018, Liverpool ReSisters tweeted a picture of a packet of unused stickers that stated the biological truth, “Women don’t have penises”. At this point, media attention came our way, and we were reported to the Merseyside Police for a hate crime. Apparently this is still under investigation, with the professed assistance of Mayor Joe Anderson .
  1. On August 18 2018, Liverpool ReSisters tweeted 4 pictures of one sticker on one Antony Gormley statue on Crosby beach, and one sticker on one information placard about the statues. There is no evidence of these objects being defaced by stickers which – by their very nature – are easily removed by anyone with the wherewithal to do so. Crosby beach is within the boundaries of Sefton, and to our knowledge, no other stickers have been reported to be found in areas “across Merseyside”.
  1. Liverpool ReSisters does not feel these stickers condone hatred towards anyone, but have served to raise awareness about the problems inherent in “self ID” and the fact that the government’s consultation on the proposed change to law is open to the public until 19 October 2018. (see consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/consultation/intro/ for more information)
  1. In our press release, which can be found on the homepage of our blog, we state the sincerely held belief that legislation must be drafted that benefits trans people, protects children, and upholds women’s rights. We refute the claim that any of these views are hateful in any way.

“The campaign has created a platform for some people to share offensive comments about the trans community particularly on social media”

Liverpool ReSisters do not own, run or moderate the content on social media platforms. We are not liable or responsible for any views other than our own, which we state clearly in our twitter and blog, and invite Liverpool City Councillors to view for themselves: @LiverpoolResis1 and www.liverpoolresisters.wordpress.com

We do remain anonymous on our twitter and blog accounts, because women have been attacked for expressing the view that women don’t have penises. Our group has been on the receiving end of many disturbingly hateful and violent messages. Please see the following blog post that shows clear examples of such behaviour:

liverpoolresisters.wordpress.com/2018/08/24/why-are-we-anonymous/

“Liverpool ReSisters do not recognise Transgender women as women”

Women don’t have penises. This is not hate speech, it is not transphobia, it is a simple statement of biological fact.

Many people are under the impression that the term ‘transgender’ is interchangeable with ‘transsexual’ – i.e. referring to people who have lived with severe gender dysphoria their entire lives, and embark on a social, medical, and surgical transition to live life as if they were the opposite sex. It is this tiny minority of people who the original Gender Recognition Act was there to help, and the reason why most people have always been supportive of trans rights, accepting of preferred pronouns and so on.

Stonewall (officially Stonewall Equality Limited) is a registered charity that lobbies UK government for changes in equality laws for lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans people. Stonewall defines trans as:

“Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.”

Over 80% of males who now identify as ‘trans’ never intend to make any bodily changes, so remain fully intact males, despite claiming a female identity.

To clarify, we share with Liverpool City Council the following dictionary definitions:

Male: of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring

Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes

We repeat: Women don’t have penises. This is not hate speech, it is not transphobia, it is a simple statement of biological fact.

“There is no place in our city for hatred and bigotry”

Again, we require urgent clarification from Liverpool City Council – are Liverpool ReSisters being accused of a hate crime? Is the Council united in accusing us of hatred and bigotry, and on what grounds and evidence is being used for such an accusation?

“Liverpool is a haven for inclusivity, acceptance and tolerance and we are proud to stand with our LGBT+ community in their endeavour to strengthen their rights both here and around the world”

The goals and aims of Liverpool ReSisters is to raise awareness of the potential threat to sex based rights and women’s rights from current proposed changes to law. We live in a democratic society wherein we have the privilege to debate and discuss changes to law that will affect members of our society. Our main focus is on women’s rights. We are a women’s group.

Women and girls need spaces of their own for a variety of reasons, but principally because we continue to face male violence and harassment in public and in private spaces. The World Health Organisation calls violence against women and girls a “major public health problem and a violation of women’s human rights”, and estimates that one in three women will endure violence from a partner or ex-partner, or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime. This violence is perpetrated by males. Until this despicable violence ends, women need safe female-only spaces.

As city councillors, we would expect you to have an understanding of the need for safeguarding for women and girls, and to oversee the statutory duties of the Council to provide for the specific needs of this sex class.

Given the recent news story about Merseyside Police being unable to monitor the thousands of sex offenders on Liverpool’s streets, as well as the endemic problem of male violence, we should be prioritising the safety and safeguarding of vulnerable women and children.

Recent statistics show that 90% of all sexual incidents in public changing rooms (voyeurism, harassment, assault and rape) occur in mixed sex facilities (despite the vast majority of facilities remaining single sex). If self-id becomes law, all spaces will become mixed sex by default, and women and children will be put at much greater risk.

“TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN”

We encourage Liverpool City Councillors to refer to the above dictionary definitions of Male and Female.

A recent poll by Pink News/YouGov showed that only 18% of the public is in favour of self-identification. Most of the public are under the impression that transgender is the same as transsexual, completely unaware that the majority of (what is now defined as) transgender women do not undergo any treatment, continue to retain their penises and are heterosexual. Once explained, the overwhelming majority of people can see the dangers and problems with self-id. We have already seen horrendous events come to light; there will be more and the public will be unforgiving to those elected representatives who allowed this to happen.

Liverpool ReSisters fully intend to continue raising awareness about this issue.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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LARLARLAND · 14/09/2018 06:21

Give over what? I am allowed to respond to further discussion of something I am interested in aren’t I? Confused

boatyardblues · 14/09/2018 06:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 06:26

Indeed you are, and you have. Am I interested that a mild expression of exasperation by me is interpreted by you as me saying you are 'not allowed'

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 06:29

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. Liverpool council's Transwomen Are Women statement is ridiculous and I suspect will come back to bite them on the bum. OP that letter is excellent. A cogently argued riposte.

LARLARLAND · 14/09/2018 06:34

I’m a troll? Seriously? The thread is about stickers being placed on a public piece of art. I have said that whilst I support the cause I don’t like this particular piece of art being defaced. Other people can comment on it just being a sticker but I am not allowed to respond to those comments? What would I have to say on a new thread that I can’t say on here? Confused

vicviking · 14/09/2018 06:39

Great letter - very clear and I think the length is good.

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 06:40

I have often wondered what Paul O'Grady would have to say about all this.

PersistenceIsNotFutile · 14/09/2018 06:41

LARLARLAND I disagree that this thread is about stickers being placed on a public piece of art. That is a side discussion, yes, but the aim of the thread is to raise awareness of the fact that Liverpool City Council believes that "TRANSWOMEN ARE WOMEN" with "no debate" on the topic.

I also don't believe you are a troll.

The fact that Liverpool City Council is taking cues from a barely literate 20 year old male is no surprise, considering how politics is going these days....

LARLARLAND · 14/09/2018 06:45

I appreciate it is somewhat of a side issue Persistence and I also appreciate that a contrary view is not always welcome on this topic...

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 06:49

No, I love a contrary view on stickers. It's just we are in the FWR topic, not the stickers topic. And by the way we see you because your little elipsis there revealed exactly what topic you are actually interested in.

LARLARLAND · 14/09/2018 06:52

What are you accusing me of Crackpot? Have the guts to say it outright instead of alluding to it.

ThefusilliJerry · 14/09/2018 06:59

I have to say I’m not surprised. The men of the hard left have found an outlet for the misogyny they’ve been under pressure to suppress and they just love it.
Perhaps the answer is for women to migrate to areas not under the control of the left - which tend to be areas of greater economic opportunity anyway. It’s what I did and I don’t look back on scouseland with much fondness, certainly not now.

IfNotNowThenWhen1 · 14/09/2018 08:04

You know what, the more insane this all gets the more I wonder why the fuck any men should get to proclaim "transwomen are women" and make rules about it. It just doesn't affect them in any meaningful way.
Look at history-men sure do love to tell women about their bodies and their boundaries. They should back the fuck off.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 14/09/2018 11:30

Great letter ReSisters.

LiverpoolReSisters · 14/09/2018 11:38

We have submitted our statements to the relevant office, and await email confirmation that they have been received.

If required, one of our members will attend for public question time.

Motion against Liverpool ReSisters by Liverpool City Council
OP posts:
Juells · 14/09/2018 11:38

Any reply to the letter - apart from 'ignore and release balloons saying TWAW'? They'll be hiring planes to drop leaflets next.

Juells · 14/09/2018 11:39

Cross posted.

MacaroonMama · 14/09/2018 11:51

Amazing letter. So articulate, clear and reasonable. I get the red mist thinking people will dare to try and quash it with the anodyne lie TWAW when you have gone to such lengths to show why that can never be true.

Good luck and keep us posted x

Melamin · 14/09/2018 12:28

Good letter.

I don't know what the obsession is with pushing 'Transwomen are women' everywhere and gaslighting women's groups to be 'nice' and accepting it, to be nice women. Even using lasers on buildings.

When did you last see 'Transmen are men' being pushed without it being an afterthought. All you ever see is that women's problems (like periods) are men's problems because transmen have them so they are not women's problems. You never see anyone campaigning for transmen to be included on cricket teams Hmm

Anyway, I will keep a look out for news on Wednesday, (in the hope they will have read it).

RedDogsBeg · 14/09/2018 14:00

I find the Liverpool City Council motion incredibly sinister. I wish you well Liverpool Resisters.

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 14/09/2018 21:21

ThefusilliJerry the reason many of us don't migrate to areas not under the control of the left - which tend to be areas of greater economic opportunity is perhaps because we can't afford it. But also - the two not being mutually exclusive - for my part my socialist principles are part of who I am. I work in some of the most deprived areas in Western Europe because I believe that these people deserve the same health outcomes and opportunities as those who are better off. Caring about inequality is much bigger than caring about misogyny just because I am female.

Or was that comment just to get a rise and did I walk straight into it?

ThefusilliJerry · 15/09/2018 08:11

It was a little tongue in cheek, yes, but there’s a serious point there. If women like you are so dispensable and unimportant, as their behaviour implies, wonder how they’d get on if you took yourselves, your skills and commitment off somewhere else? I don’t think that would work out very well for them. So they should have more fucking respect.

Lefty99 · 15/09/2018 08:40

The reaction of Liverpool City councillors to this actually makes me want to leave the city. Barry Kushner who is the cabinet member responsible for overseeing safeguarding, children's services and social care has shown himself to not give a toss about safeguarding children or women's concerns, labelling women asking questions and raising facts bigots. On twitter last night. Not responding to any questions or concerns. We need reassurance from those in positions of power. After what happened in Coventry I am in despair. I have no faith this won't happen here. I don't want to let my kids out of my sight. Merseyside Police are a shambles not able to monitor all the sex offenders and completely in bed with Mermaids. There is nobody willing to speak to women and provide any reassurance I don't know what to do Sad

ThefusilliJerry · 15/09/2018 08:47

My dad was a copper in Merseyside for over 30 years. I don’t want to ask him what he thinks of Merseyside police now. It’s very bitter for people like him to see the city and the force like this. I know the police are not always popular but in my experience most of them do believe they are there to protect people and fight real crime. They don’t want this crap.

arranfan · 15/09/2018 09:19

lefty99 wrote: There is nobody willing to speak to women and provide any reassurance I don't know what to do

If only there were a political party that was willing to listen and take this up as a meaningful cause. Or at least provide guidance.