Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Motion against Liverpool ReSisters by Liverpool City Council

340 replies

LiverpoolReSisters · 13/09/2018 11:59

Council motion can be found here: councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=305&MId=16817&Ver=4

Our reply:

Dear Councillors,

I am writing to you on behalf of a group of local women who have grave concerns about the government’s proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

The government have recently launched a consultation on changes to this law which will effectively render women’s sex-based rights under the Equality Act 2010 redundant. Under the proposals for ‘self identification’ or ‘self ID’ of gender, any person can legally change their sex by simply signing a form, with no checks or balances. This has many consequences for our community, and we feel some of our Council representatives have not considered the full implications of this issue and have made hasty public comments as a result. The motion put forward by these council members is well-meaning, but has clearly not been assessed for the wider impact it will have on the community they represent.

We would like to comment on item 14 in the City Council Meeting Agenda, dated Wednesday 19 September, 2018.

“Hate crime can be devastating for victims and their families and has the potential to divide and damage communities and neighbourhoods.”

We, as members of the group Liverpool ReSisters, agree that hate crime has the potential to divide and damage individuals and communities.

As defined on gov.uk, a hate crime is a crime committed against someone because of their disability, gender-identity, race, religion or belief, or sexual orientation.

Is Liverpool City Council accusing Liverpool ReSisters of a hate crime? Naming our group in the Agenda item directly below this commentary is a clear effort to tie our name with criminal activity.

“A hateful campaign has been set up by Liverpool ReSisters that has seen stickers regarding Trans women and gender recognition defacing public art works and buildings across Merseyside.”

We would like to point out the following facts:

  1. We have not “set up” a “hateful campaign”. On August 17 2018, Liverpool ReSisters tweeted a picture of a packet of unused stickers that stated the biological truth, “Women don’t have penises”. At this point, media attention came our way, and we were reported to the Merseyside Police for a hate crime. Apparently this is still under investigation, with the professed assistance of Mayor Joe Anderson .
  1. On August 18 2018, Liverpool ReSisters tweeted 4 pictures of one sticker on one Antony Gormley statue on Crosby beach, and one sticker on one information placard about the statues. There is no evidence of these objects being defaced by stickers which – by their very nature – are easily removed by anyone with the wherewithal to do so. Crosby beach is within the boundaries of Sefton, and to our knowledge, no other stickers have been reported to be found in areas “across Merseyside”.
  1. Liverpool ReSisters does not feel these stickers condone hatred towards anyone, but have served to raise awareness about the problems inherent in “self ID” and the fact that the government’s consultation on the proposed change to law is open to the public until 19 October 2018. (see consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/consultation/intro/ for more information)
  1. In our press release, which can be found on the homepage of our blog, we state the sincerely held belief that legislation must be drafted that benefits trans people, protects children, and upholds women’s rights. We refute the claim that any of these views are hateful in any way.

“The campaign has created a platform for some people to share offensive comments about the trans community particularly on social media”

Liverpool ReSisters do not own, run or moderate the content on social media platforms. We are not liable or responsible for any views other than our own, which we state clearly in our twitter and blog, and invite Liverpool City Councillors to view for themselves: @LiverpoolResis1 and www.liverpoolresisters.wordpress.com

We do remain anonymous on our twitter and blog accounts, because women have been attacked for expressing the view that women don’t have penises. Our group has been on the receiving end of many disturbingly hateful and violent messages. Please see the following blog post that shows clear examples of such behaviour:

liverpoolresisters.wordpress.com/2018/08/24/why-are-we-anonymous/

“Liverpool ReSisters do not recognise Transgender women as women”

Women don’t have penises. This is not hate speech, it is not transphobia, it is a simple statement of biological fact.

Many people are under the impression that the term ‘transgender’ is interchangeable with ‘transsexual’ – i.e. referring to people who have lived with severe gender dysphoria their entire lives, and embark on a social, medical, and surgical transition to live life as if they were the opposite sex. It is this tiny minority of people who the original Gender Recognition Act was there to help, and the reason why most people have always been supportive of trans rights, accepting of preferred pronouns and so on.

Stonewall (officially Stonewall Equality Limited) is a registered charity that lobbies UK government for changes in equality laws for lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans people. Stonewall defines trans as:

“Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.”

Over 80% of males who now identify as ‘trans’ never intend to make any bodily changes, so remain fully intact males, despite claiming a female identity.

To clarify, we share with Liverpool City Council the following dictionary definitions:

Male: of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring

Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes

We repeat: Women don’t have penises. This is not hate speech, it is not transphobia, it is a simple statement of biological fact.

“There is no place in our city for hatred and bigotry”

Again, we require urgent clarification from Liverpool City Council – are Liverpool ReSisters being accused of a hate crime? Is the Council united in accusing us of hatred and bigotry, and on what grounds and evidence is being used for such an accusation?

“Liverpool is a haven for inclusivity, acceptance and tolerance and we are proud to stand with our LGBT+ community in their endeavour to strengthen their rights both here and around the world”

The goals and aims of Liverpool ReSisters is to raise awareness of the potential threat to sex based rights and women’s rights from current proposed changes to law. We live in a democratic society wherein we have the privilege to debate and discuss changes to law that will affect members of our society. Our main focus is on women’s rights. We are a women’s group.

Women and girls need spaces of their own for a variety of reasons, but principally because we continue to face male violence and harassment in public and in private spaces. The World Health Organisation calls violence against women and girls a “major public health problem and a violation of women’s human rights”, and estimates that one in three women will endure violence from a partner or ex-partner, or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime. This violence is perpetrated by males. Until this despicable violence ends, women need safe female-only spaces.

As city councillors, we would expect you to have an understanding of the need for safeguarding for women and girls, and to oversee the statutory duties of the Council to provide for the specific needs of this sex class.

Given the recent news story about Merseyside Police being unable to monitor the thousands of sex offenders on Liverpool’s streets, as well as the endemic problem of male violence, we should be prioritising the safety and safeguarding of vulnerable women and children.

Recent statistics show that 90% of all sexual incidents in public changing rooms (voyeurism, harassment, assault and rape) occur in mixed sex facilities (despite the vast majority of facilities remaining single sex). If self-id becomes law, all spaces will become mixed sex by default, and women and children will be put at much greater risk.

“TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN”

We encourage Liverpool City Councillors to refer to the above dictionary definitions of Male and Female.

A recent poll by Pink News/YouGov showed that only 18% of the public is in favour of self-identification. Most of the public are under the impression that transgender is the same as transsexual, completely unaware that the majority of (what is now defined as) transgender women do not undergo any treatment, continue to retain their penises and are heterosexual. Once explained, the overwhelming majority of people can see the dangers and problems with self-id. We have already seen horrendous events come to light; there will be more and the public will be unforgiving to those elected representatives who allowed this to happen.

Liverpool ReSisters fully intend to continue raising awareness about this issue.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:00

If someone stuck a sticker on a portrait in the National Portrait Gallery there would be uproar, but a statue in Liverpool is fine Hmm

WarmWishes · 13/09/2018 17:02

That's not a valid comparison.

SunsetBeetch · 13/09/2018 17:03

They're only stickers and easily removed larlar it's not like someone spray painted graffiti on them fgs

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:03

Yes it is. Those statues are extremely special to me. I hate to see them defaced. This is not the first time, nor will it be the last but it is disrespectful to the artist and to the people who enjoy them every day.

SturdyEarmuffs · 13/09/2018 17:05

I'm not from Liverpool or have ever seen those statues in person. But, having seen the kerfuffle about them, is it true they disappear under water when the tide comes in?

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:08

Yes at certain times they will be under water. Depends on the tide and where they are situated on the beach. They have been sprayed with paint and covered in clothes in the past, which makes them look terrible.

IrmaFayLear · 13/09/2018 17:08

That whole council Agenda is a load of crap and contains many matters that should not concern councils. In fact one of the biggest wastes of public money is councils. Councillors are all raking it in (with allowances, extra allowances, pensions) for turning up and voting usually according to a whip. And often councillors have been elected with a turnout of around 30%.

Anyway, good for the LiverpoolReSisters.

Kleptronic · 13/09/2018 17:09

I've seen those iron men dressed in all manner of garments, seemingly randomly. I've seen them with notices round their necks. I've seen them co-opted into religious plays. I've seen them give piggybacks. My dogs widdle on at least one of them daily. I run a parkrun down to and back up from one every week, and he wears a high-vis jacket and a crash helmet. He's called Bing.

So I think the art in those statues is that they seem to have been embraced by and belong to everyone, and anyone can put non-permanent things on them, because everybody does already.

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:12

I am not sure I agree with you Kleptronic I pass them every day too and I think mostly, they are untouched and they look better for it. I wish people would just leave them alone.

MrsToddsShortcut · 13/09/2018 17:23

LARLAR I'm sure the statues do mean a lot to a lot of people. But they are made of iron and, as such, aren't going to be damaged by a sticker.

I accept that some people may have felt it disrespectful to temporarily deface a statue, but no permanent damage will have been done.

In contrast, women's hard and long fought for right to sex segregated spaces are seriously at risk and that means a lot to a huge number of women.

If they are not protected, then it will in, in all likelihood, cause damage to some women and girls; some may be physical damage and some may be psychological damage. The statistic that 90% of sexual assaults in public baths and gyms take place in the unisex facilities is real. The assaults are real and the residual effects are real.

And they can't be erased with a bit of white spirit.

AspieAndProud · 13/09/2018 17:23

Maybe those suddenly concerned for the Iron Men can should try to hold back the tide too. It's one of the most destructive forces on Earth.

Then we can stop talking about cis and trans women. We can talk about cunty and cnuty women.

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:25

I am very much sympathetic to the cause but please keep off my favourite piece of art.

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:26

I am not "suddenly concerned' about the Iron Men so fuck off. I pass them every day and every time I see some twat has painted them I get annoyed.

terryleather · 13/09/2018 17:43

When I saw the Iron Men one was wearing a hard hat, and at least another couple had items of clothing on them - can't remember what they were as it was a good few years ago and my memory is shit.

They of course should be respected but they are public art and designed to be interacted with - if the interactions are not of a permanent and/or destructive nature I don't see the problem.

The Men are an amazing sight and anyone who has the chance should go and see them.

Kleptronic · 13/09/2018 17:45

That's ok LARLAR we don't have to agree. I like it though. I like the ReSisters too :)

AspieAndProud · 13/09/2018 17:47

I am not "suddenly concerned' about the Iron Men so fuck off.

You sound like a uniquely sensitive human being.

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:48

The clothes come and go terryleather They end up looking like rags because of the weather and sea. In the past Anthony Gormley has asked for anything that has been added to the men to be removed because they are not designed to be interactive and thankfully most people are respectful, but obviously some people are idiots and don't care that these things are pieces of art.

As for the sticker being OK. I have no idea how long it would take the elements to remove the sticker or if they are easy to remove with white spirit. All I know is that if someone had stuck one of these things on the bonnet of my car, arguing it wasn't permanent I still would have been severely fucked off, as I am that they have been stuck on the Iron Men.

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 17:49

That's three or four out of a lot of Iron Men Kleptronic and you know full well that most are left well alone.

seafret · 13/09/2018 17:49

Thank you for doing this. The letter needs to be detailed. You cannot hold people to full and proper account with soundbites, however popular they are with twatterers and the lazy-brained. I am so thankful you are doing this ReSisters Star

LiverpoolReSisters · 13/09/2018 17:54

We are sorry that you've been upset by the sticker's location, LARLARLAND, but the fact is that this action has raised public consciousness by about 1000% and we feel it was worth it.

For anyone curious, the sticker was submerged in the sea about 10 minutes after it was placed. No doubt someone will come along to berate us about sea littering.

OP posts:
Kleptronic · 13/09/2018 17:57

Well no, I don't know that really, because I'm not watching all of them, all of the time. I like to think that Everyone Dresses Gormley and they all have had an outfit at least once.

People in interacting with art having a difference of opinions = good in my book.

SausageOnAFork · 13/09/2018 18:00

Larlar I think it is sad that someone put one of the stickers on them, defacing public art is never ok.

However, women don’t have penises, can we stay on that please and stop the derailing.

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 18:04

That's good of you to say LIverpoolReSisters. I also regularly take a few bin bags down to collect litter but I will forgive you given that it's in a good cause Smile

ExCharlieBucket · 13/09/2018 18:10

If anybody wants to come with me to this meeting on 19th, please PM me. I am LIVID.

RedDogsBeg · 13/09/2018 18:13

I can understand your feeling towards your favourite piece of art LARLARLAND, however, as LiverpoolReSisters said that one small act which caused no lasting damage did more in ten minutes than hours upon hours upon hours of talking.

They are known as the Crosby Iron Men and they are most certainly men, which is obvious by their unequivocal male physique. According to TRA ideology though they are indistinguishable from women, in fact they are possibly just women with penises. Would you like your favourite piece of art re-named accordingly?