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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Motion against Liverpool ReSisters by Liverpool City Council

340 replies

LiverpoolReSisters · 13/09/2018 11:59

Council motion can be found here: councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=305&MId=16817&Ver=4

Our reply:

Dear Councillors,

I am writing to you on behalf of a group of local women who have grave concerns about the government’s proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

The government have recently launched a consultation on changes to this law which will effectively render women’s sex-based rights under the Equality Act 2010 redundant. Under the proposals for ‘self identification’ or ‘self ID’ of gender, any person can legally change their sex by simply signing a form, with no checks or balances. This has many consequences for our community, and we feel some of our Council representatives have not considered the full implications of this issue and have made hasty public comments as a result. The motion put forward by these council members is well-meaning, but has clearly not been assessed for the wider impact it will have on the community they represent.

We would like to comment on item 14 in the City Council Meeting Agenda, dated Wednesday 19 September, 2018.

“Hate crime can be devastating for victims and their families and has the potential to divide and damage communities and neighbourhoods.”

We, as members of the group Liverpool ReSisters, agree that hate crime has the potential to divide and damage individuals and communities.

As defined on gov.uk, a hate crime is a crime committed against someone because of their disability, gender-identity, race, religion or belief, or sexual orientation.

Is Liverpool City Council accusing Liverpool ReSisters of a hate crime? Naming our group in the Agenda item directly below this commentary is a clear effort to tie our name with criminal activity.

“A hateful campaign has been set up by Liverpool ReSisters that has seen stickers regarding Trans women and gender recognition defacing public art works and buildings across Merseyside.”

We would like to point out the following facts:

  1. We have not “set up” a “hateful campaign”. On August 17 2018, Liverpool ReSisters tweeted a picture of a packet of unused stickers that stated the biological truth, “Women don’t have penises”. At this point, media attention came our way, and we were reported to the Merseyside Police for a hate crime. Apparently this is still under investigation, with the professed assistance of Mayor Joe Anderson .
  1. On August 18 2018, Liverpool ReSisters tweeted 4 pictures of one sticker on one Antony Gormley statue on Crosby beach, and one sticker on one information placard about the statues. There is no evidence of these objects being defaced by stickers which – by their very nature – are easily removed by anyone with the wherewithal to do so. Crosby beach is within the boundaries of Sefton, and to our knowledge, no other stickers have been reported to be found in areas “across Merseyside”.
  1. Liverpool ReSisters does not feel these stickers condone hatred towards anyone, but have served to raise awareness about the problems inherent in “self ID” and the fact that the government’s consultation on the proposed change to law is open to the public until 19 October 2018. (see consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/consultation/intro/ for more information)
  1. In our press release, which can be found on the homepage of our blog, we state the sincerely held belief that legislation must be drafted that benefits trans people, protects children, and upholds women’s rights. We refute the claim that any of these views are hateful in any way.

“The campaign has created a platform for some people to share offensive comments about the trans community particularly on social media”

Liverpool ReSisters do not own, run or moderate the content on social media platforms. We are not liable or responsible for any views other than our own, which we state clearly in our twitter and blog, and invite Liverpool City Councillors to view for themselves: @LiverpoolResis1 and www.liverpoolresisters.wordpress.com

We do remain anonymous on our twitter and blog accounts, because women have been attacked for expressing the view that women don’t have penises. Our group has been on the receiving end of many disturbingly hateful and violent messages. Please see the following blog post that shows clear examples of such behaviour:

liverpoolresisters.wordpress.com/2018/08/24/why-are-we-anonymous/

“Liverpool ReSisters do not recognise Transgender women as women”

Women don’t have penises. This is not hate speech, it is not transphobia, it is a simple statement of biological fact.

Many people are under the impression that the term ‘transgender’ is interchangeable with ‘transsexual’ – i.e. referring to people who have lived with severe gender dysphoria their entire lives, and embark on a social, medical, and surgical transition to live life as if they were the opposite sex. It is this tiny minority of people who the original Gender Recognition Act was there to help, and the reason why most people have always been supportive of trans rights, accepting of preferred pronouns and so on.

Stonewall (officially Stonewall Equality Limited) is a registered charity that lobbies UK government for changes in equality laws for lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans people. Stonewall defines trans as:

“Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.”

Over 80% of males who now identify as ‘trans’ never intend to make any bodily changes, so remain fully intact males, despite claiming a female identity.

To clarify, we share with Liverpool City Council the following dictionary definitions:

Male: of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring

Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes

We repeat: Women don’t have penises. This is not hate speech, it is not transphobia, it is a simple statement of biological fact.

“There is no place in our city for hatred and bigotry”

Again, we require urgent clarification from Liverpool City Council – are Liverpool ReSisters being accused of a hate crime? Is the Council united in accusing us of hatred and bigotry, and on what grounds and evidence is being used for such an accusation?

“Liverpool is a haven for inclusivity, acceptance and tolerance and we are proud to stand with our LGBT+ community in their endeavour to strengthen their rights both here and around the world”

The goals and aims of Liverpool ReSisters is to raise awareness of the potential threat to sex based rights and women’s rights from current proposed changes to law. We live in a democratic society wherein we have the privilege to debate and discuss changes to law that will affect members of our society. Our main focus is on women’s rights. We are a women’s group.

Women and girls need spaces of their own for a variety of reasons, but principally because we continue to face male violence and harassment in public and in private spaces. The World Health Organisation calls violence against women and girls a “major public health problem and a violation of women’s human rights”, and estimates that one in three women will endure violence from a partner or ex-partner, or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime. This violence is perpetrated by males. Until this despicable violence ends, women need safe female-only spaces.

As city councillors, we would expect you to have an understanding of the need for safeguarding for women and girls, and to oversee the statutory duties of the Council to provide for the specific needs of this sex class.

Given the recent news story about Merseyside Police being unable to monitor the thousands of sex offenders on Liverpool’s streets, as well as the endemic problem of male violence, we should be prioritising the safety and safeguarding of vulnerable women and children.

Recent statistics show that 90% of all sexual incidents in public changing rooms (voyeurism, harassment, assault and rape) occur in mixed sex facilities (despite the vast majority of facilities remaining single sex). If self-id becomes law, all spaces will become mixed sex by default, and women and children will be put at much greater risk.

“TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN”

We encourage Liverpool City Councillors to refer to the above dictionary definitions of Male and Female.

A recent poll by Pink News/YouGov showed that only 18% of the public is in favour of self-identification. Most of the public are under the impression that transgender is the same as transsexual, completely unaware that the majority of (what is now defined as) transgender women do not undergo any treatment, continue to retain their penises and are heterosexual. Once explained, the overwhelming majority of people can see the dangers and problems with self-id. We have already seen horrendous events come to light; there will be more and the public will be unforgiving to those elected representatives who allowed this to happen.

Liverpool ReSisters fully intend to continue raising awareness about this issue.

OP posts:
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RoxytheRexy · 13/09/2018 18:26

Well done my sisters. I’m so surprised that Liverpool has embraced this nonsense

I was a student nurse in Liverpool and loved every minute of it. Scouse women are strong and smart. I had some of the best times of my life in that city.

I lived in Seaforth for a little bit so often saw Another Place. The Iron Men are always dressed up. Silly hats, scarfs, Flowers. I loved it. I thought it showed Scousers off to there best qualities. Fantastic sense of humour, unmovable iron core

vanitythynameisnotwoman · 13/09/2018 18:34

It's a great letter. Very clear, respectful but firm. I was so delighted that our lovely corner of the country was leading the way - so it's gutting to see the crackdown by the council behaving like the thought police with their TWAW. As ever, no concern for Transmen.

hackmum · 13/09/2018 18:38

Interesting about the statues. The suffragettes were a lot more extreme about defacing public property.

VickyEadie · 13/09/2018 19:15

Given that thread on here about 13 year old girls in America having double mastectomies, better a statue get temporarily 'defaced' with a removable sticker than the creeping disease of trans body fascism results in more children suffering mutilation of their sex characteristics.

bd67th · 13/09/2018 19:47

An oil painting in the National Gallery is just as fragile as a huge iron statue that is continuously exposed to salt water spray? This false equivalence is found all through TRA "logic":

  • "No man has a penis" is deemed worse than "punch t**fs".
  • "Ian Huntley is a man" is deemed worse than him murdering two girls.
  • Skepticat not being able to remember to describe Tara Wood as "she" in court is worse than Tara Wood punching her.
  • A sticker on a Gormley outdoor statue is as bad as a sticker on a Rembrandt.

If you're not a TRA, you are certainly coming across like one.

All I know is that if someone had stuck one of these things on the bonnet of my car

Your car is the personal property of an individual, not a publicly accessible outdoor art installation that is routinely "decorated" by the local people.

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 20:23

I am not a TRA. I support your arguments. I don’t like the Iron Men defaced. The two positions are not mutually exclusive.

newtlover · 13/09/2018 21:19

I hope, Liverpoolresisters, you have contacted local and regional press?
This sounds like a really good opportunity to reach a wider audience who will all go 'eh what?'

PoulaFisch · 13/09/2018 21:42

re: the letter - TL;DR

Well done Liverpool City Council for championing diversity and standing up to an extremist minority.

SausageOnAFork · 13/09/2018 21:51

Who is the minority?
People who think that women don’t have penises?

RedDogsBeg · 13/09/2018 21:55

Never ceases to amaze me how people are so arrogant as to assume they can comment or pass an opinion on something they haven't actually read.

UpstartCrow · 13/09/2018 21:57

A Pink News survey showed only 18% of people support self ID. The fact that women don't have a penis has never been an extremist belief.

Introducing legislation that will affect over 50% of the population including women, Muslims, Jews and Sikhs is not inclusive or diverse.

ChattyLion · 13/09/2018 22:25

I ❤️ Liverpool ReSisters. Flowers

Admittedly I don’t have any professional training in art conservation but it certainly seems unlikely that a small removable sticker temporarily placed on a large iron object that is submerged in sea water every high tide Is likely to cause any ill effect?

The risk of unsightly barnacles and the inevitable tidal erosion on these art works over time may perhaps be greater worries?

And talking of worries- the increases risk to the privacy, dignity and safety of women, when their single-sex spaces are removed by letting in men is well documented.

Luckily though- unlike holding back the tide- this worry about the loss of single sex spaces is likely to be simply solved and significantly reduced, by keeping single-sex spaces for women only.

RedDogsBeg · 13/09/2018 22:29

UpstartCrow I totally agree with you, anyone with any sense would and does, sadly that's not a category PoulaFisch inhabits or ever will.

PencilsInSpace · 13/09/2018 22:43

As for the sticker being OK. I have no idea how long it would take the elements to remove the sticker

It would take one tide. It's a fucking sticker.

The whole point of art like this is that it interacts with the environment it's placed in. Even Gormley has no control over that once he has sited his work, no matter how much he loves the dimensions of his body. The environment includes people as much as it does the sea.

If you don't want the public to interact with your work then don't make public art. Stick it in a gallery and label it precious and not to be touched if that's what you want.

Putting 'public art' on a public beach and then saying the public may not interact with it is just colonising a public space and taking it away from the public.

All anyone needs to know about #stickerwoman is this:

  1. it's all of us, from all over the place

  2. There's a #stickerwoman sticker at Goldsmiths that has been left there FOR WEEKS. It's a wee bit more subtle than 'women don't have penises' - it features the trans flag and the word OBEY in big bold letters. It's sited prominently on a campus map, directly facing the very busy New Cross Road. Everybody at Goldsmiths who has seen this sticker obviously thinks it's a reasonable instruction and so has not called for its removal.

I stand with Liverpool ReSisters.

I am #stickerwoman

WarmWishes · 13/09/2018 23:03

Ha! Brilliant. Am loving the Obey sticker!

BlackeyedSusan · 13/09/2018 23:09

iron men in salt water?

That's going to end well!

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2018 00:24

Everybody at Goldsmiths who has seen this sticker obviously thinks it's a reasonable instruction and so has not called for its removal.

LOL what they clearly think is that a trans sticker with the word "obey" on it is perfectly reasonable. Repeat after us: TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN.

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2018 00:27

Putting 'public art' on a public beach and then saying the public may not interact with it is just colonising a public space and taking it away from the public.

THIS.

IfNotNowThenWhen1 · 14/09/2018 00:32

Public art like the iron men seems to express an idea about what it is to be human. It's part of the landscape we live in, not precious but rugged. It becomes part of the fabric of our lives.
I would say It's almost our civic duty to deface public art in the name of free speech and human rights.
(And it was a fucking sticker ffs!)

ScienceIsTruth · 14/09/2018 00:49

Has anyone actually asked the iron men if they identify as men though? We could all be misgendering the poor things!

ScienceIsTruth · 14/09/2018 00:52

Wrt the letter, it's bloody fantastic: clear, concise and reasonable. Thank you for all you're doing to protect women's rights, Liverpool ReSisters.

Chandlersthirdnipple · 14/09/2018 00:53

Proud of you sisters!
Ashamed of the council, but they’ve never given a flying fuck about women, it’s the Joe Anderson ego show.

AspieAndProud · 14/09/2018 01:32

There's a #stickerwoman sticker at Goldsmiths that has been left there FOR WEEKS. It's a wee bit more subtle than 'women don't have penises' - it features the trans flag and the word OBEY in big bold letters

Is this a reference to John Carpenter's They Live?

LARLARLAND · 14/09/2018 06:17

ChattyLion The artist Anthony Gormley wanted the Iron Men to change with the elements and so barnacles and changes to the metal caused by the salt water and are all OK in his book. He’s not so happy about things being put onto the men by members of the public.

CrackpotsArePots · 14/09/2018 06:19

Oh Give Over