Does this person have a point about trans women in loos?

[HamsterToast]

To be fair I have seen people say this about trans women. Thoughts?

*and no I'm not a trans troll stalking in disguise. Although that is what a trans troll stalking in disguise would say ......

Why is it women's problem? Why is not men's problem? Why is it absolutely taken for granted that women are responsible for the difficulties that men choose to take on, when they decide they're no longer men?

No. That person is a dick.

The lived experience doesn't mean using women's fucking spaces, it means using a woman's name, changing your title and pronouns etc. How on earth would someone know which fucking lav you'd used when you were at a doctor's appointment? Would they be told they were ineligible for surgery because once at a cinema they used the men's loo so sorry that's another year's wait. It doesn't make any sense.

Is it really a requirement of GRS to spend a year using women’s spaces? Specifically women’s spaces?

Bullshit, how would anybody prove that they'd been using the women's toilets. I couldn't even do that

Other double binds:

You still have a dick
You're mutilating yourselves

You're pantomiming femininity
You have a fucking beard

For the year you can avoid using a woman's shower room, or locker room, you absolutely can.

Don't give a shit about toilets but even that can usually be avoided by using single sex toilets.

If the person they had avoided single sex spaces to not upset natal women I highly doubt that would be seen as reason to not let them get their GRS

12thGuelph

Women didn't create the problem. Men need to sort their own problems out and not demand that it's the responsibility of women.

Double binds are quite the feature of the TRA movement. That's what happens when you have an ideology that piggybacks on so many different things to get its own way.

It's not as though they have to fill out a chart of which toilet/changing rooms they used for the year when applying for a grc/surgery. So its a non point as far as I can see. Lived in role...surely that means name change/clothes/whatever, not do you use the female toilets.

Let's face it. Women's loos are not the real problem. Women have been accepting transwomen in loos for years - they generally try to blend in or "pass". I doubt whether most women would try to remove someone who is genuinely trying to fit in. The problem lies with men who don't want to blend in, they want to shock. They don't shave. They feel they have a right to change in front of women instead of in cubicles. They are not even trying to "live as a woman" (wharever that means).

The NHS has a Gender Dysphoria Protocol that covers Real Life Experience as part of the pre-requisites within the overall gender reassignment treatment plans.

However, I wonder if the specific practicalities of the question might be worth the OP directing it towards someone with first hand knowledge? E.g., Rose of Dawn who seems to be responsive to enquiries on both Twitter and YouTube.

Yet Transwomen can and do get GRS.

So how are they doing it if they must use women's spaces for 1 year, yet are apparently barred from doing so?

Surely it follows that the statement quoted is incorrect, therefore the person doesn't have a point?

Accessing women's spaces?

What like turning up to a maternity unit?

Getting a smear test?

Being shit scared or joyful over a positive pregnancy test. Or. Being disconsolate over a negative pregnancy test?

Deciding whether or not you want to go through the pain and anguish of a mammogram?

Going for a smear test with a young pre school child in tow?

Being called a t**f and a bigot for suggesting that women have a right to sex segregated spaces even though you may be black, muslim or an orthodox jew?

Going into a refuge scared and with your young children?

Wearing lipstick, a wig and having painted nails doesn't cut it.

How has it come to pass that problems, which have fuck all to do with us, are up to us to solve? What's going on? Do men think all women are their loving Mummies?

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH LOOS.

Use the loos according to your sex.

Bullshit, how would anybody prove that they'd been using the women's toilets.

Maybe you collect stamps on a Loo Card like when you spend a tenner at Waterstones.

I've never been to a doctor's that doesn't have single toilets anyway. They don't expect people to give a urine sample with other people watching.

Born male. Born female.

Most sexing takes place now by scans during pregnancy. Confirmed at birth.

Basically what is being said is that if you walk in once to a Ladies toilet you pass the test.

Who cares if you wear a dress, paint your nails and wear lipstick. Lots of women don't do any of these things.

Agreed 12th they are double binds.

So much easier to treat everyone the same except when it's important to separate /make allowances by sex. Sex which doesn't change. Any, all and no gender expression should be tolerated by everyone. Wear what you want, walk how you like and change your name if you wish. Lots of people enjoy doing those things. But it's ridiculous to think that altering gender expression magically changes your sex based needs. Unless you are one of the vanishingly small number of people who have had genital reassignment surgery and even that doesn't negate your prior life experience or differing body strength.

Alternatively make everything mixed sex. Statistically a shit idea for females of course but whatever. But at least be fucking honest about it.

Do men think all women are their loving Mummies?

Yes. And when mummy doesn't do what they want, we are the repository for everything.... Hate, disappointment in oneself, rage, uninvited dick, you name it.

Factually inaccurate anyway. Dudebro doesn’t know the difference between GRS and GRC, let alone the difference between ‘living as’ and using a bog.

Watching with interest. It's friday night, not as many mods on, just saying ............

You're pantomiming femininity
You have a fucking beard

Um, there’s quite a lot of daylight between these two extremes.

And as for the removal of the penis, I’ve heard no feminists criticising an adult trans woman for this, in fact pretty much all feminists I’ve seen comment say they’re willing to welcome physically transitioned trans women into female spaces.