Does this person have a point about trans women in loos?

[HamsterToast]

To be fair I have seen people say this about trans women. Thoughts?

*and no I'm not a trans troll stalking in disguise. Although that is what a trans troll stalking in disguise would say ......

Great thread.

12th does have a point about the double bind. But that point has been answered convincingly.

BarrackerBarmer

Thank you for your advice, and I'll accept it with all best intentions

I think the problem is (and this probably affects others with gender dysphoria too), a degree of body dysmorphia. The two seem to interlock.

I obviously support personal autonomy and everyone's self-determination over their own bodies. As I go through the medical process to ease (I won't use the word "cure) my gender dysphoria, making cosmetic alterations to bring my outward appearance in line with my sense of self is important.

Whilst I'm all too aware that the end-result will be "non-functioning", and some will see it as self-mutilation sanctioned by the medical profession - ultimately it will enable me to lead a happier existence.

I've not rushed into my transition, nor have I taken the decision to commit myself to such a "final" step lightly - but for "me", it's the right thing to do.

Essentially, and rather bluntly, it's just a cosmetic operation to make me feel better about myself. At the end of the day what I have underneath my jeans is nobody else's business other than mine and my partners. (Quick disclaimer that my partner of 6 years knew about my GD even before my first date because I told them). I'm certainly not going to go striding into a public place and go "LOOK AT THIS!"

You're right though. I've thought and reasoned my way through all of this - and I'll never dismiss other people's advice/opinions. I've tried to accept my intact male body for over 20 years and I can't. It ain't gonna change anytime soon.

I'm proud to call myself trans/GNC. It's how I identify. I don't need to encroach upon/take away anyone elses rights to justify my own existence and place in the world.

THIS x 1000
“You see, after reading that hamster, my instinct would be to 'take you under my wing' and encourage you to be brave, come in with me to the loos, as a friend would do.
But, in reality, it's not my place to 'let you in' to women's spaces. I wonder if women have somehow unwittingly budged up in the face of men's refusal to accept men like you, only to have given an inch to then be ridden for 100 miles by the pisstakers?”

No, they do not. The fact that the system that approves transition has set things up this way is not women's fault.

Do men think all women are their loving Mummies?

Yes, and it's very mean of us not to offer to give them their bottle and pat their bum on demand.

speakingwoman

12th does have a point about the double bind.

Only if you think women must always be responsible for men and their feelings. It's their double bind, not ours.

Hamster your posts illustrate so well what Miranda Yardley often says - the difference between people who identify with women and people who identify as women.

Still mulling over this and can't get over the confidence trick that's been pulled on women - and that some women are colluding with - making women believe that this has anything to do with us. It doesn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with us. How far would anyone get telling men they must be kind and inclusive and give up their own rights or they're just mean?

Knicknackpaddyflak

Thank you, but I'm no Miranda. It's taken me weeks of lurking without an account to actually gather enough courage to post something (hopefully) meaningful. I'm certainly not well versed in feminist theory or the nuances of some arguments (and wouldn't know where to begin in order to educate myself - although I'd love to).

I guess I'm a bit of a coward who's now had enough of the TRAs making my life bloody miserable too.

I would also say to anyone considering changing their body in response to extreme discomfort...How do we deal with anorexic girls and women who acutely see their own bodies differently. We do not say, yes you are right and you can starve yourself if it makes you feel better. We give them help to feel better about themselves and see that they are deluded. Bloody hard situation to be in.

Angryresister

I'd never thought of it in those terms before.

All I can do is try and elaborate from my own personal experience.

I went through numerous counsellors, therapists, psychologists - whose help did absolutely nothing. Even after ending up being sectioned in a psych hospital after I reached crisis their own psychiatrists didn't help.

It was only when I started receiving specialist help from a gender clinic did things start getting better. From what I understand, things seem to move very quickly now - from GP to referral to clinic. In my case that didn't happen. There's no intervention BEFORE ending up in a GIC waiting room.

I'm not even sure reparative therapy would work for those with severe gender dysphoria.

The problem is that nowdays any old bod seems to get insta-diagnosed, thrown onto strong hormones and shoved onto a medical conveyor belt towards surgery. The process NEEDS to be better - and don't even get me started on the treatment model for kids.