Does this person have a point about trans women in loos?

[HamsterToast]

To be fair I have seen people say this about trans women. Thoughts?

*and no I'm not a trans troll stalking in disguise. Although that is what a trans troll stalking in disguise would say ......

So a disabled woman who never uses the women's facilities because she always uses the disabled toilets and the disabled changing rooms is not 'living as a woman'?

Disingenuous bollocks.

Come on everyone - "living as a woman" is absolute bollocks!

I have a mate called Kim who never wears skirts or dresses or make-up.

Is Kim a man or a woman?

I’m just trying to think of things I do to live as a woman. I’m struggling. I’ve never worn make-up, I never ever wear dresses or skirts, my hair is buzzed, Will I get my birth certificate revoked?
There is no way to live as a woman, beyond the things that stem from biology that we can’t change.

There is no way to live as a woman, beyond the things that stem from biology that we can’t change.

Exactly.

You have to remember these protocols were written by the same people who insisted you ‘dresses approximately’ for all appointments.

CHX used to refuse to treat a trans woman unless they turned up in a skirt or dress.

CHX used to refuse to treat a trans woman unless they turned up in a skirt or dress.

Like many of us on here, I can't remember the last time I wore a fucking skirt or dress.

I can't remember the last time I wore a fucking skirt or dress.

😛 I win then, as I can remember. It was two years ago at a 'do'. I felt very uncomfortable. I don't do woman very well. 😁

Exactly, joggers, jeggings and jeans With t shirts are my staple clothes.

Trousers with a blouse at work, skirt or dress only if I’m trying to impress.

I'm not ok with men in women's spaces. Surgery makes no difference to me.
I've never accepted this view as reasonable.
It panders to the idea that all women are
merely slightly modified men, Adam without a rib, or in this case his willy.

Losing his penis doesnt make a man somehow more like me. Nor does adding silicone implants, or creating a hole surgically. What have those male body modifications to do with actual women? How am I supposed to be 'more like' a man who does this than a man who doesn't?
Chop the legs off a sheep and it doesn't become a cloud.

I'm not a dickless man.

CHX used to refuse to treat a trans woman unless they turned up in a skirt or dress.

Following that logic - I've been wearing jeans all week, clearly I'm a bloke. I shall henceforth change my name to Steve and start leg spreading on public transport to accommodate my enormous imaginary testicles.

But being serious, this suggests even medical professionals are enforcing a stereotype of women, which is worrying.

Bronners78 - again, thank you. The insight of someone who has been through the RLE requirement is an eye-opener.

As for CHX's protocol and the lack of any forethought for real world difficulties/consequences...

Back in the 80s when (and even then, I was taken aback that this was OK) a gay friend was attending a psychiatrist. The friend wanted to discuss the family dynamics that had a huge part in his MH difficulties. The psychiatrist focused only on the homosexuality - and on learning that friend had never had sex with a woman insisted that he should try it out.

Now - many other issues aside (one particularly purblind woman who was actively pursuing him and had no idea he was gay) - how would that go?

Morning after: "Well, that was super-disappointing but has wholly confirmed for me that I have no sexual interest at all in women."

Woman in question. ?!!?

And what it would have done to her? Or in the psychiatrist's mind, was that a wholly irrelevant issue and shouldn't have had an effect on either her or my friend's wellbeing when he reflected on just what a heel he'd been.

I should say here that, of course, my friend didn't do this. But, I regretted that he didn't heed the advice about changing psychiatrist.

Can someone who identifies as trans have a peak trans moment.

I am under no illusion I am a man. Biology doesn't lie. My chromosomes do not lie. There is nothing that either myself or the greatest medical practitioners on the planet can do to change that.

I have gender dysphoria. I've had it as long as I can remember (20+ years). To alleviate it, and the mental distress it causes me, I take oestrogen and an anti-androgen. Does that make me a woman? No.

Soon, I will have surgery to further alleviate my gender dysphoria. Does as medically constructed "vagina" make me a woman? Of course it doesn't. I'll never have a period, nor give birth. Neither will I ever have the experiences that a woman will have.

Did I ever grow up or was I ever socialised as a woman? No. I've never experienced the fear of violence, rape, the discrimination and misogyny. I've been protected by male privilege all of my life.

Do I feel like a woman? Err, what does a woman feel like? I feel like me... I know I don't fit in with the societal norms of masculinity.

But even though I'm visiting a gender clinic, have a female name, present myself in a non-masculine manner, take hormones and will ultimately have surgery to change my outward appearance - does that give me the right to call myself a woman and access women's only spaces.

OF COURSE IT F*CKING DOESN'T - for all the reasons above.

I'll use disabled / gender neutral toilets, I won't visit changing rooms, or gyms or swimming pools because (a) men do not accept me and (b) because I don't have the RIGHT to be in those spaces because I'm not a woman.

Whose fault is that? Not women's, that's for sure.

Not all transwomen are demanding access to women's only spaces. Not all transwomen want to erase identities or call themselves lesbians. It makes me incandescent that this group with their "ladydicks" and AGP and god knows what are trying to someone "oust" women as a biological entity.

Some of us just want to get on with our lives quietly, realise who we are and actually respect people as human beings. I'll be honest. I'm scared. Transphobia is increasing due to the actions of these people and their ongoing quest for "rights" that we should not have.

Even when I've stood up and argued this with other *transpeople, I've been called a "traitor", "sympathiser", "not really trans". It's a cult and it's only getting worse....

Hamster we know but thanks. We are angry but we are not angry at you. Women are not the only people who are being hurt by this.

You see, after reading that hamster, my instinct would be to 'take you under my wing' and encourage you to be brave, come in with me to the loos, as a friend would do.
But, in reality, it's not my place to 'let you in' to women's spaces. I wonder if women have somehow unwittingly budged up in the face of men's refusal to accept men like you, only to have given an inch to then be ridden for 100 miles by the pisstakers?

Now these people are making it all women's problem to sort out for them, or risk losing our rights entirely.
No wonder feminist numbers are growing exponentially.

I was reading various things of Twitter yesterday, as more stories revealing TRA lies are bubbling up and coming to the attention of people on the Righter end of the spectrum that I follow. (I follow a lot of people on Twitter from all viewpoints, because I'm not a deluded bubble creator who blocks our voices that I don't agree with)

It was very interesting to see how many of the Right-wing tweeters were saying versions of "Well now the transwoman has raped women in prison, the feminists will be happy because they got their way" or "Why aren't feminists standing up against these things?"

It's really demonstrating to me how much women are in the firing line for all this backlash, despite being the ones who have been calling out the warnings for the longest.

The essence of a successful black op is to create the havoc you want and have everyone blame it on the people you wish to crush.

The 'gatekeeping' at Charing Cross clinic a few years ago was legendarily awful. Trans women had to pretend to be what an old male upper-class doctor thought women should be. A friend was asked how many pairs of shoes they had, and told 'that's not enough, ask any woman about her shoe collection'. I fell about laughing because I have no 'pretty' shoes, just DMs for everyday and a few sports shoes.
That's why many people who transitioned a decade or more ago tend to dress and present themselves in a fairly similar way, very 'twinset and pearls' - they were taught they had to conform to an upper-class misogynists ideal of womanhood.
These days the clinics tend to be less ridiculous on what constitutes typical clothing for a woman, as the old guard have retired.

Hamster00 - yep, absolutely. I'm afraid the extreme TRAs have a word for people like you, and it's 'truscum'. They are not looking out for the best interests of people like you. Sorry.

Hamster, that was an honest post.

My advice, which you haven't sought, is to delay your surgery.
You already have reasoned right through the principles of being unable to change your sex. You are never going to be able to fool yourself because you already have acknowledged the truth, and there's no going back from that.
I don't imagine any therapist is ever able to say this to you, but if you irrevocably alter your body and you KNOW already that this will not help you to be female, it is likely that you will not end up happier or more at peace.

Consider holding off. Consider finding a way to accept your intact male body, and to be the person you actually are and can only ever be.

Don't strive for the impossible, it can never be reached and will only bring anguish. Strive to accept yourself for who you actually are.

I fell about laughing because I have no 'pretty' shoes, just DMs for everyday and a few sports shoes

I may recently have nearly thrown a strop because I had to wear my 'pretty' shoes and slightly tripped on uneven paving and they've started to separate toe from sole. They're only 28 years old.

I am, of course, trying to get them repaired because I can't bear the idea of shopping for another pair.

Then again, Assigned Northern at Birth...

Hamster00

I think most of us on this board are painfully aware that this is also a thoroughly shit situation for transsexuals/people with gender dysphoria.

I hope you have real life support and know others like you, there seem to be more and more every time I lurk on twitter.

I’m sorry your movement has been appropriated by predatory men and that this runs the risk of damaging both your public acceptance and access to appropriate and good quality medical care.

My hope is that long term being GNC becomes the protected characteristic, that men become much more accepting and that everyone can present how they want. If that is too much of a pipe dream then I would at least like to see the Stonewall umbrella kicked to curb so that being a transvestite or a pervert is not associated with being a transsexual and that transsexuals are accepted in their own communities on a case by case basis with women retaining the ability to call out pisstakers.

Floral
now the transwoman has raped women in prison, the feminists will be happy because they got their way
Omgosh I know, I hear this so often and me very understand it but then I realise it's because the TRA agenda has infiltrated feminist collectives like feminist current who made Riley J Dennis famous and people actually think that is feminism what a shitshow

^me very should say - never

Floral I've seen a ton of comments, mostly from men, that this is what feminists wanted so lie in the bed you've made type thing.

A few who have obviously paid a bit closer attention try to point out the differences between intersectional/3rd wave and radical/2nd wave feminism and have begrudgingly called us the best of a bad bunch!

Unfortunately yes we are going to be part of the backlash as more on the right turn their attentions to this.

It's incredibly frustrating to see comments that suggest women and feminists have done nothing to speak out about this when it's been a huge part of the discourse if you know where to look.

They clearly have no knowledge of FPFW, WPUK, ManFriday and all the other grassroots women's orgs that have been established exactly because of this issue.

This is in part because of the no debate tactic and because so many on and offline spaces allow no discussion or dissent.

Thank you for your post, Hamster.