Thread 2 - Anti-trans vandals are plastering vile ‘women don’t have penises’ stickers around THE WORLD

[CesiraAndEnrico]

First thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3331514-anti-trans-vandals-are-plastering-vile-women-don-t-have-penises-stickers-around-london

I'm optimistic this will spill over to most of the MSM soon, and keep on being a snowball, gathering momentum and mass, as it rolls down the snowy mountain of bullshit forced upon us all.

So here is thread 2, ready & waiting for the speed to pick up.

That Rebecca Watson article is horrendous.
I had actually hoped that when some of the UK humanists, sceptics, Goldacre, sense about science etc type of organisations had understood what was happening with the TRA dogma they would speak up.

I naively thought they would do this because they love to see themselves as the truth-telling clever little guys (Male plural) speaking up against the looming, idiotic establishment.

What more of a classic example is that the TRA dogma has overtaken the public sector and third sector, now heading for Parliament in the form of legal gender Self-ID?

Guess the the humanists (cough) and sceptic community aren’t going to be giving a flying fuck about women’s concerns then because we’re not all, well, straight, white, senior on our careers and male enough.

They would rather be pointlessly preaching to the converted, chortling on about how stupid anyone is who believes in homeopathy or astrology, while exhorting for freedom of speech and in academic publications, and backslapping about their clever science qualifications.

For the record, I want a more ‘rational’ less superstitious society too but not at the expense of belittling or excluding or ignoring women who have totally legitimate cast iron, fucking unbelievably 100% EVIDENCE BASED concerns about what the TRA agenda is doing RIGHT NOW to kids and women here in the UK. Not to fucking mention freedom of speech, association, sexuality, a child's right to an open future etc etc etc. The list goes on.

Please pass me some of that MN gin

titles something about santa

Cesira I love your posts

Oh fuck Cesira, I wouldn’t want that anywhere near my Christmas bush tree. 😂

Chatty

😘😘😘

I love them less. I literally decided to go do the laundry because Son is leaving me soon and will need clean clothes to pack. Took "just a quick glance at TIO". ......And ended up making a Prick in Santa Hat.

The laundry is still there. I am still here. To me my posts are mainly more evidence of me being an undisciplined wotnot.

Right. Laundry. No ".just a quick refresh page". Probably

Somebody just confiscate my stylus. Please.

He does look good in that hat though. One with mistletoe over his head would be cheeky but cool.

Cesira. Love it. Or a Christmas caroller edition wearing a scarf and a lamp in the snow? Singing the slogan?

Cesira Truly gruesome. Put me right off Christmas 😳

I wonder how "woman = adult human female" stickers would go down?

Oooh Crimbo cock would make a lovely Christmas tree deckie- it even matches my colour scheme!

Christmas Kiss for Willy ?

No Christmas Kiss for Willy (oh hell we deserve one inside joke)

Lol he looks like an ex of mine

Telegraph has a story now about activists shutting down debate. Can't link sorry.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/27/transgender-activists-accused-attempting-shut-downdebate/
It’s a reasoned article but why why why do they go and spoil it by citing bloody Jacob Rees-Mogg? Completely undermines the seriousness of the argument, imo.

Thanks

It’s a reasoned article but why why why do they go and spoil it by citing bloody Jacob Rees-Mogg? Completely undermines the seriousness of the argument, imo.

What is exactly is it in the JRM quote you believe undermines the seriousness of the argument ?

Jacob Rees-Mogg, a Conservative MP, said Ms Atkins has approached the issue in a "mild and thoughtful way", adding: "It is unfortunate that others have responded to her comments so aggressively in the hope that they can shut down debate. The point of free speech is that people have to be allowed to say things that you do not agree with."

I think he hit it perfectly. Plus the man has reach. And we need the numbers. Cos numbers is all we've got in our artillery. No way we can compete in funds, nor whatever it is they have that got that caused 7 out of 8 political parties to just fucking bend over. (By my count only UKIP is a hold out on TWAW/Self ID is a good idea)

The only sticking point for the political class is when the gen.pub roars back so loudly that they suddenly remember who works for who. For that we need numbers. Which means people of all sorts of stripes. Including blue. And the blues seem to love this guy. So, more power to his elbow on this issue.

I’m not sure Cesira. Agree that his quote is non-contentious but he is divisive and self-serving imo. It’s not his contribution to the debate but the choice of him as a commentator by the author that makes me uncomfortable.

Completely agree. There are people whose views I would utterly disagree with otherwise but I’m in alliance with over other points. Such as the extremely disappointing OJ. I stand with him on class, but am really very upset with him at his wilful blind spot about the current (perennial?) problem.

Yes we have some very strange bedfellows at the moment!

but he is divisive and self-serving imo

And you don't think more conservative, less keen on feminists people don't find GC spokeswomen divisive, self serving, insert other not exactly flattering but rather partisan description.

We need them to set aside their antipathy in order to consume, consider, recycle and promote the work being done by GC feminists. Because it is good work. Who has done it is not relevant. The arguments are sound.

That can not a one way street.

Not if we want to win.

I don't like the current way of thinking - if we don't agree 100% with someone else's views, then we cannot align ourselves on anything.

I see the world encouraging everyone to close themselves off into smaller and smaller boxes with ever increasing labels, and this does not foster anything like healthy debate or the opportunity to fully flesh out and consider one's views.

There have been many times in my life where I've been challenged in my thinking and even changed my mind when I've had a respectful, serious discussion with someone I didn't agree with at first. I don't think this is a character flaw, but a strength.

But to remain in an echo chamber, with willful ignorance is seen as progressive.

Apologies for cross posting, but cross out Sarah Vine and insert any other mainstream bod people don't align with in many ways.

It is worth underscoring this point. We cannot win if all the opposition is sitting isolated in their various factions, busy pointing "yuck" fingers at the people on the same side of them on this issue, being squeamish about cross faction support, promotion and recycling where the arguments are sound.

The TRAs fucking love the divisions between us. That's why they went bonkers over the Katie Hopkins tweet. Doing their best to use "guilt by association" tactics to get GC and lefties to pull away from it and not create a connection as allies.

They are fucking terrified that we will get over the "beyond the pale person!" hump. Cos if we do, they know we will streamroller them with the "suddenly very aware of what's going on" vast majority of the gen.. pub., before the TRAs have even got their boots on.

.....

I have to say I wont be lauding any articles by Sarah Vine on this

I will. I want to win.

I will be fucked if I totter off this mortal coil leaving this bullshit as my (hypothetical) grandchildrens' reality without putting up a fight that has a chance of succeeding.

I can disagree strongly with people, about other stuff, about their specific perceptions and positions within this debate. But as long as they aren't advocating for a legal "lesser human" status, violence, harassment and intimidation etc., we're good. Don't want the LHVHI crew, don't like them and they lack discipline among other things. Which makes them a millstone, not a gain.

Other than that, I don't care if somebody's God I don't believe in has told them being anything other than gender stereotype conforming, heterosexual and non-flamboyant is immoral. I don't care if the world their formative years occurred in has left them unable to budge an inch on how wrong men wearing lipstick is. I don't care if they come from a place where the unusual and atypical makes them seriously uncomfortable and their major motivation is to return to their comfort zone.

I work on the basis that the world would be a better place if I were allowed for form and express opinions that others don't share. Without them then refusing to give me even the smallest benefit of the doubt that I am not motivated by hate, I am not an intrinsically/irredeemably terrible person, I can't ever be right and promptly assuming the absolute worst of me.

And I'll be buggered if I am going to turn into a Mrs Do as I Say, Not Do as I Do.

So yup. I'll laud her. And hope she has MAJOR reach. Because we need all the different flavoured battalions possible to form the enormous army we could be. And storm to victory.

I'd rather go to Victor's Ball and wince internally at some of the people I have lumbered myself with for the evening, than attend the losers' wake while congratulating myself on maintaining my purity of association.

I want to win.

I accept that might not be classically femmine priority.

But I was raised in the military. And I know that a unit that is overly picky about who it will work and form alliances with... is basically fucked before they even pick out their favourite rifle.

They have a lot of military types on their side. A head start. Better kit. More funding. An evident ability to go from herd of cats to well-trained flying monkey squad when the order is given. A script. The ability to cry/rend clothes on demand. And an ENOURMOUS number of state, political, association and business bodies well under their thumb.

All we have is numbers.
Currently clumped in various "personal priorities" factions. With no plan to mobilise as the huge, unbeatable "army of many flags" we could be,

We can walk this, with dirtier hands than we'd like.

Or

Stay nice and clean, and get crushed.

We all get to pick one of the above.
Based on what we personally can live more easily as the final outcome.

I chose muck over loss.
I don't give a shit if that makes me a less good person in some people's eyes.

I cannot in good conscience choose feeling good about myself and my "purity", over handing the next couple of generations freedom from and resistance to TRA bullshit.

The thing is, it's the Telegraph, so yes, they will quote Jacob Rees-Mogg, and that will have more resonance with their readers. I note that the piece only quotes Tory politicians (as well obviously as Frank Furedi and James Caspian), and wonder whether that is deliberate, or whether Labour and Lib Dem politicians refused to comment.

Would be interesting to know- inn Dems did a splendid job of shutting down the debate here locally online- I wonder who of them will pop their head up to say “hang on a minute” first.