Surprise! The Masons now welcome Transwomen but not women

[Indierockandroll]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6013141/Freemasons-break-tradition-allow-women-join-brotherhood-born-male.html

From what I took from the Times article, the decision is that Masons have been told they legally have to allow any members who subsequently undergo gender reassignment to retain their membership since gender reassignment is a protected characteristic.

They are allowed to provide a single sex service, but not to discriminate against their membership. The impression I got is that they would rather have kicked out any transwomen but have been told it’s illegal, not that they are welcoming them with open arms.

I’ve only just read about this and I am very confused.

As I understand it transwoman are woman. There is no difference they are woman who just happen to have a penis.
So if transwoman are women and wish to be treated as such then surely they can’t join the masons.

It's also in the Guardian

The line that jumped out at me was, 'The rule changes have come after the Freemasons asked a senior judge among their members to look into the legal implications of gender reassignment ahead of an expected relaxation of the law, according to the Times.'

'Expected relaxation' makes it sound like such a done deal

Transgender women are real women and have now been permitted to the Masons. No reason why all women shouldn’t be permitted.

@Hideandgo I can't tell if you are being deliberately obtuse here?

The reason that transwomen are allowed in the Mason's is because they are actually men!

I thought I read something which said that trans men are also allowed in. Which just leaves us boring smelly old women who aren't allowed.

And yes the same guy who thinks that anyone should be allowed into women's spaces on the basis of gender identity, also obviously bloody well knows full well that transwomen are obviously men. And doesn't care that women don't want men in their spaces.

It's a bit like the old 'I see them as women except for relationship purposes' types. Cherry picking to suit them, whilst screaming 'bigotry and transphobia' at any woman who dares to assert her own boundaries.

Oh and the Freemasons is a load of absolute bollocks anyway.

Hi! I'm a trans woman who was a freemason. My dad made me join when I was 18 because I was a bit too "fruity" for his liking (what with the whole "asking to be called Amy" and "taking estrogen" shtick) and he wanted me to "man up" so I got to hang out with a load of drunk old guys every few weeks . Anyway, I came out as trans to the whole lodge a few months later.

They're not actually welcoming of trans women, they just can't legally kick you out because you might sue them, they do very heavily imply you leave as soon as coming out.

Also: trans men are totally welcome - there was a trans guy at the lodge while I was there (and afaik he hadn't had any surgery) and my friend's boyfriend is at another lodge. You're more than welcome to self-ID your way in but you'd need to get two people to vouch for your character.

That said, I have no idea why that Edward Lord is even saying they're non-binary, except maybe their partner is and they decided they were too? I mean you can't blame a bunch of octogenarians for not realising someone who has a full on beard isn't actually a guy

That's really interesting puppies, thanks.

I think they are fairly safe because of the voting thing, easy to keep people out.

How do the self ID transmen you know deal with the best baring part of the erm, initiation I suppose it is.

Breast baring!

Sorry on phone.

No worries! Well I'm not entirely sure, but I can tell you that you're blindfolded and there's a knife held pointing there. I did not realise this and got stabbed in the boob (not sure if that's meant to happen but it did). That bit's only for 10 seconds and you look a right knob anyway so probably not that bad :)

Interesting stuff Puppies.
So transwoman, transmen and men can join the Masons.
Just not women then.

But transwomen are women so if transwoman are allowed to join then we are saying that they aren’t women and are different to women.

So which is it?

Trans women aren't allowed to join if they're out as trans, they're considered women and it's a fraternity. They're only allowed to remain in if they're a trans woman who came out as trans after joining, and even then you're very heavily encouraged to leave but they can't just outright say that. If that makes sense? :)

A frequently-asked-questions document attached to the policy explains that lodges must permit members who have transitioned to female an alternative to the usual dress codes, such as a smart dark skirt and top

Because obviously being a woman you need to wear a skirt. Otherwise you're not a woman.

That makes perfect sense.
So John can join and then become Joanne, but if Joanne wanted to join they couldn’t.

Because obviously being a woman you need to wear a skirt. Otherwise you're not a woman.

That’s it. I put some trousers on once and my vulva fell off.

Couldn't Joanne self ID back to a man for the application and joining then return to being a woman once joined?

Puppies you were on oestrogen enough to have grown breasts when you joined?

Didn't they notice when they did the stabbing thing?

How long does it take for oestrogen to make you grow boobs- not a while?

Sorry for all the questions!

Actually this should be flipped. If you want a GRC and are a Mason then that should be an automatic No as you haven't been living as a woman attending your boys own club.

Well this is a right mess, innit?
If the FM don't really believe TWAW, why should we?

The hypocrisy by the FM is fairly evident, considering they do have female chapters, the 'solution' could have been that TW once the don the frock, shove them into Pink Ghetto Lodges.

So is this move more about 'we are losing so many members that want to get their frock on, what can we do?'. Because that is how it reads.

As usual though, it is a bit coy on the 'surgery' part, given most trans of either sex don't actually have the genital surgery. Sure, the more committed 'transmen' have the double mastectomy, so could pass the breast-baring part of the programme, but a number (not all) of TW would not for the same reason. The whole point of the breast baring is to prove you are not a female in drag.

I doubt that there would be many TM invited to become members, given the invitation system.

NothingOn
"Vera Baird, who as Labour’s solicitor general was involved in drafting the legislation, says: “We obviously looked with bared teeth at the prospect of getting rid of them [all-male gentlemen’s clubs].” However, very quickly they saw that this could not be done without also forcing a parallel ban of women’s swimming clubs or gay choirs."

Interestingly, the woman's swimming clubs and the gay choirs are/ soon will be, no more. The "gentlemens" clubs remain.

Yes, rather interesting, isn't it?

But they will be addressed at meetings as Brother Mary, which I suspect won't go down well.

If they are women, as some profess I'd the case, how does this work then? It's a mens club isn't it?

Can we have our own lodge?

Will it be pink and sparkly?

Will the transwomen use the male toilets there? Will new ones be built?