India Willoughby has had facial feminisation surgery

[gendercritter]

Apparently in response to online trolls.

And do you know what, for the first time I feel sad for India. It looks like brutal surgery. India said India had it done to be accepted as a female but that is never truly going to happen, if people are being honest.

The thing that struck me in CBB when India was jabbing India's finger at the woman present and yelling 'I am a woman' was how male India looked. There was a shot taken from behind and I read what I saw as a man with a ponytail. There was absolutely no getting away from the fact you were seeing a male physique.

I am still capable of feeling lots of other things for this individual alongside sadness but I do hate to think of people being so ill at ease with themselves.

I saw TM when at someone's house, the sound was off, so I just had the header bar to go off. Having not watched BB and not having much interest in celebs I wouldn't recognise India anyway. But from the shots I glanced at on the TV she did look like a woman, if she was Karen formally known as Kevin who you walked past on the high street you probably wouldn't give a 2nd glance.

IW has played this out in public and to that end is being no more vilified than anyone else (well women mainly) who play their lives out in public.

India will never be content with her looks or the way that people treat her. She thrives on the drama and will never be truly happy because that isn't what she wants. Being happy is like being perfect - it has nowhere to go for some.

I remember when India was in CBB and they mentioned that they were looking forward to the day when the housemates got their letters from home. India said that they hadn't spoken to their son for ages and were hoping to get a letter from him. I wonder why India's son is estranged from them?

TerryLeather Wayne/Jayne’s* music has actually aged surprisingly well!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=FNyUVlZ_amE

I bet Jayne would be horrified by all this cotton ceiling nonsense, she inspired my own sexual philosophy, ‘if you don’t want to f*k me baby, baby, f*k off!’ has saved me from many an unrequited heartbreak over the last 25 odd years.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9FEH4dXjUkk

*not a deliberate misgender/deadname, Jayne happily responds to both seeing as his/her early career is under one name and her later under the other. Her biography is a riot, highly recommended.

facial surgery is an interesting thing I have quite a few fiends who have had it and they are very happy with it and I think they look the best versions of themselves they can be. I have never had the money to be able to and to be honest it scares me looking at yourself and not seeing you so it's not for me. I didn't do all this to be someone else. but my friends I know are happy and it's lovely to see that

Bespin do you think FFS has gained a lot of popularity very recently? It seems that way to me (years ago there were very few practitioners, iirc)

Betty Thanks for posting that and I agree that's a great philosophy...but since I'm now menopausal and have fanny weirder I'm mostly about everyone fucking off rather than the fucking ...

I didn't know Jayne had written a biography and will absolutely be checking it out so thanks for the recommendation.

BettyDuMonde yes like most plastic surgery it is more widely available and cheaper than it ever was so probably why it's more popular lots of surgeons are realising its a untapped market of people who. Will have multiple operations. I support anyone who wants and can afford it but it should not be the expectation that we need to have it

Thanks Bespin I guess I feel the same - not necessarily a trans thing.

Personally I am a bit skeevy about all cosmetic surgery (and hyper aware of the risks of a general) but I’ve always had a curiosity re: FFS because I have a more prominent brow bone that most women (in old Hollywood parlance, I am probably what was once referred to as a ‘handsome woman’). I’d prefer a society where people didn’t feel the need for such brutal processes, but I realise it’s a hard ship to turn around.

Overall I worry that facial surgery is making humans more homogeneous than is desirable to my own aesthetic taste. Current movie stars all have pretty much the same nose, for example. Can’t imagine a Bette Davis type making it these days!

BettyDuMonde

no I can not imagine some of the old. film. stars being as popular today I think. we miss that diversity in what we consider beauty today

Ooh a thread derail I can join in! Back in the day my brother auditioned to be the guitarist with Jayne County's band. They turned him down cos he looked too "normal"

Which is ironic cos he now plays guitar for another 70s punk legend who has (sort of) transitioned........

And as a total aside and not-quite-so-off-the-rails I work from home and a couple of weeks ago I had "Come Dine With Me" on in the background. IW was a contestant. This was waay before the CBB stuff. IW didn't win.

I liked your derail Yambabe...I'm now wondering who the 70s punk legend is..

Ha! Excellent tenuous claim to fame, one that can only be cashed in amongst a very select crowd of 1970s New York punk fans

I absolutely adored Jayne. It annoys me that current mouthy TRAs likely have no knowledge of or interest in her, even though she was a trail blazer.

The night I saw her play at JoJos she spent most of the gig with a Sainsbury’s carrier bag hanging off her arm.

Good times.

I don't want to out DB lol! Lets see if I can find a picture.......

This is the main (wo)man......

Thank you

PS I just had a quick google to see if I could find a clip of IW on CDWM and discovered IW is also trans-age!

All the local papers reporting the CDWM said IW was 51 in Jan 2017. Yet here we are in June 2018 and all the papers reporting on the surgery state IW is still 51.

Ooops!

We are in July ...............you mean.

I remember India shouting at Amanda Barrie ................was bloody awful behaviour.

Oooooooh! Am I eligible for trans-age do you think?

I remember India shouting at Amanda Barrie ................was bloody awful behaviour.

Yes... "I AM A REAL WOMAN!" finger jabbing, shouting, (threatening) male behaviour. Very awful.

And yet everyone viewing knew India had transed from Jonathan and wasn't a "real woman" at all. No-one believed it then and no-one believes it now. Men know. Women know.

Why are we all expected to walk on eggshells around this? IW is instantly recognisable as IW even/despite the FFS....

Bespin 'I didn't do this to be someone else'

I love that sentiment, and I agree it seems the view of what constitutes female beauty has narrowed in the west, its broadened slightly to include some of views of PoC beauty but only where that conforms to a 'white' standard.

I've strong facial features and sometimes get misgendered. I like how I look.

I feel like this has mostly been done for validation which will never be forthcoming - like I said, that is very sad.

Yes. People can't change what they know. I actually feel pity for India now because I don't think they're ever going to get what they ultimately want - people's belief that they're genuinely female. Miranda's view is far healthier.