India Willoughby has had facial feminisation surgery

[gendercritter]

Apparently in response to online trolls.

And do you know what, for the first time I feel sad for India. It looks like brutal surgery. India said India had it done to be accepted as a female but that is never truly going to happen, if people are being honest.

The thing that struck me in CBB when India was jabbing India's finger at the woman present and yelling 'I am a woman' was how male India looked. There was a shot taken from behind and I read what I saw as a man with a ponytail. There was absolutely no getting away from the fact you were seeing a male physique.

I am still capable of feeling lots of other things for this individual alongside sadness but I do hate to think of people being so ill at ease with themselves.

Pete Burns is a terrible warning of dangers of getting addicted to surgery (Insert pronoun I'm supposed to use here as I don't know) was talented and beautiful what a waste

Poor old Pete Burns. RIP

India isn't female for goodness sake!

India is male. This is biological fact.

The act has stalled through pressure from hardline feminist groups, who see all trans women as potential rapists in dresses.

Oh honestly, so sick of the purposeful misrepresenting of gender critical feminist views.

Mind I guess its partially true, Shrodengiers rapist and all that. All men are potential rapists, what with being men and all. But this making out that feminists think all transwomen will rape them is just silly. Nope, feminists see men as men. And think women should have space away from men in certain areas. And men seem to think the same, men don't seem thrilled at the idea of changing clothes with women and such, overall. And if they aren't bothered, they are very bothered at the thought of men watching their young daughters, or their partners getting changed.

Oh, and I hope India is happy with the results of their surgery also. Its a big step having such brutal plastic surgery. But blaming it on 'trolls' (probably meaning feminists) is a bit shit. India had the surgery as India wanted the surgery.

SpareRibFem regarding Pete’s pronoun, I stick with ‘he’ because he stuck with a male name. Another example of following a person’s individual social cues (something we’ve been talking about on the misgendering thread, for the information of confused readers!)

I suppose India is in the same position as lots of other women/transwomen in the public eye, there is always someone coming up behind you who is prettier/younger.

In India’s case, she’ll be fighting for media work with competitors like Paris Lees. No contest for a lot of producers.

I admire the celebrity women that have refused to participate in this, Helen Mirren, for example, and Renee Zellwegger, it can’t be an easy (nor financially rewarding) path to take.

All the typing of 'India' rather than 'she' isn't really making any point it's just making these posts eye roll inducing to read

Oh gosh, another attempt at policing perfectly polite language with no attempt to actually join the conversation taking place.

Second one on this thread today.

Jax, that's not really our fault. I'm not going to call India 'he', but I won't be forced into calling India 'she', so I'm left calling India India to accommodate the rules and my conscience. Yes, it is really difficult to navigate, both in writing and reading, but there really isn't an alternative.

I hope it makes India feel happier but I see very little difference. India looks like a man, there's no getting away from that.

India's body is shaped like a man and India's hands are the hands of a man. What next?

I wish India happiness but until India learns to love India that won't happen.

Pete Burns is a terrible warning of dangers of getting addicted to surgery (Insert pronoun I'm supposed to use here as I don't know) was talented and beautiful what a waste

Was such a waste he (never id as a woman) would go abroad for dodgy budget surgery then go on reality tv to pay for it poor Pete

Jax I'll be honest I was quite happy to use she in most cases until the strict rules came in, then I started being a lot more careful not to make a typo and I'm less likely to make a mistake I'll be penalised for if I stick to they and the name.

I also mind being policed to this extent, forced compliance creates a different mindset to doing something voluntarily

Unintended consequences and all that...

From my perspective, almost everyone looks worse after facial surgery, whether they are trans or not. Faces are less expressive. They take on an uncanny valley look. I think this about Hollywood actresses and I think this about trans people.

India's looks more subtle than Monroe's so I prefer India's. I thought Monroe - much as I dislike them as a person and their views - looked really rather beautiful pre-FFS and looks like a - trying to think of a polite way of putting it - blank doll? post-FFS.

Whatever image of "woman" facial cosmetic surgeons are trying to achieve, it isn't my image of "woman".

Fairplay for Women:
Dr Nicola Williams discussing India Willoughby's interview on Good Morning Britain with Karen Ingala Smith Counting Dead Women :

(extract)
"India dared to tell Karen that her website contains a list of crimes committed by men and that this was is a great demonisation.

“I feel really sorry for guys this year – I think they’ve had it really tough”.

India was referring to this; the list of 138 women killed by their male partners or ex-partners last year. This is the annual list that Karen compiles every year with the details of every death in honour of these women. It is the work that told us for the first time that 2-3 woman are killed every week by intimate partners. Yet, all India can see is the vilification of men. I wonder why?

Karen explains what the list is about. “Well there you go – you have one track – one topic of conversation – not all men are bad. There a plenty good guys in this world”

Yes, you heard it right – India Willoughby has just told the head of an organisation that exists to help women after they have been abused by men – that she has only one track! Well thank heavens they do – women need these services and people like Karen who dedicate themselves to this cause. There are currently around 80,000 men in prison in England and Wales compared to just 4000 women. 10,000 of those men are convicted sex offenders compares to a minuscule 126 women. Every statistic you care to look at shows without doubt that violence and abuse is overwhelmingly committed by males.

How dare India mock this cause. India says she’s a woman – well I don’t see your womanhood India. " (continues)

fairplayforwomen.com/thank-india-w-showing-us-women-perceive-transwomen-still-male/

(Good Morning Britain interview refernced above was in February 2018)

I think India looks more like a woman and that will make India feel better. For that, I am glad - I wouldn't wish India to feel any more turmoil that India already does.

But India has no fellow-feeling for women.

R0wantrees Yes I saw the interview with India interjecting how sorry India felt about the guys getting a bad press! Truly disgusting.

I think India looks more like a woman and that will make India feel better.

And yet India's USP is being trans.

I wonder how much work India would get if India consistently didn't mention or refer to being trans?

All I remember of that interview was India feeling sorry for men as the website made men look bad.

Yes, India does actually look more feminine, usually those surgeries don't seem to make a diference, but I can see a definite difference with them. If the masculine behaviours such as screaming and towering over a bunch of women shouting that you are a real woman doent stop though, then I am afraid how you look won't really make that much difference.

But India has no fellow-feeling for women

Totally this infact I would go as far to say IW refuses to intergrate with women because this would make India ordinary and IW couldn't cope with being an ordinary every day woman.

@SpareRibFem very true

BettyduMonde just adding Julianne Moore to your list.