India Willoughby has had facial feminisation surgery

[gendercritter]

Apparently in response to online trolls.

And do you know what, for the first time I feel sad for India. It looks like brutal surgery. India said India had it done to be accepted as a female but that is never truly going to happen, if people are being honest.

The thing that struck me in CBB when India was jabbing India's finger at the woman present and yelling 'I am a woman' was how male India looked. There was a shot taken from behind and I read what I saw as a man with a ponytail. There was absolutely no getting away from the fact you were seeing a male physique.

I am still capable of feeling lots of other things for this individual alongside sadness but I do hate to think of people being so ill at ease with themselves.

All the surgery in the world won't change your chromosomes.

If people want plastic surgery (for any reason) that's an individual choice.

I saw the article and felt sad for India but what they experienced in between bf judges on B.B. is no worse than a lot of the women get - Helen or jade for example were openly mocked as ugly stupid dogs / bitches / munters.
India was called “a man” which is different wording but the experience was very similar. India experienced almost exactly what many many women in the public eye endure.

It's all about self promotion. India could have had all this done and made no mention of it, and decline to talk about it if asked. It's just another step in the media career for India.

If bullying by trolls was the reason for the surgery then the plastic surgeon should be investigated for performing this surgery. Negative external influences should be identified and addressed before going ahead with 11 hours worth of plastic surgery.

I caught the interview, and was struck when India said about the incident with Ann Widdecombe using the unacceptable pronoun that India had found it so unbelievable because India had been "sitting there, in a dress, with make up on and long hair" and Ann clearly still hadn't automatically treated India as a female.
I recall at the time feeling that it was clear India really believed they read as female, and had been surrounded by people up to that point who had cosseted this notion. When faced with the reality that other women could quite obviously tell India was not female born, India responded with real aggression.
I venture to suggest that, far from the facial surgery being a necessary response to stop bullies, it is rather a decision borne out of trying to chase the elusive goal of convincing people that India can be indistinguishable from a born woman.
Humanly speaking, that's a sad situation.

I read an article (in the Times perhaps) about a FF surgeon in the US - the description of what happens during it was, um, not for the faint hearted

There is a strong link between transgender and depression-I hope India gets the mental support needed to keep India stable.

The hyperbole is strong in that one.

I don’t feel sorry for IW in the same way as I don’t feel sorry for someone like Katie Price, who to my mind has also had fuckton of needless facial alterations, as it is their body and the are adults capable of making considered decisions with regards to what they think will make them happy.

However, in both respects, I consider them both to be chasing an impossible ideal. If IW thinks that facial féminisation is akin to becoming female, or that others will now consider them female because their face less resembles that of a man then I fear they are setting themselves up for disappointment. But that is their issue and they are not owed the suspension of reality by anybody else, just because they put themselves through an expensive and painful procedure rather than tackle their disordered thinking.

Dick

Yes, I think there is causal root that is similar in women who have plastic surgery and IW's who have plastic surgery.

India is clearly using the media to fund thr surgery. It can't be easy having people criticising your looks on the Internet but that's the cost of being a "celebrity" and making money more easily than average people. The sceptic in me thinks that it's an investment in her career as India is competing for work against younger people like Paris Lees.

I wonder how much India's looks have been criticised compared to others who have had surgery/appeared on reality shows like Kylie Jenner and Katie Price?

There is a strong link between narcissism and plastic surgery.

It's very sad to see a false self grow over a fragile self, then the narcissistic rage of the false self exploding when exposed. When all along there was nothing wrong with fragile real self, hidden under the narcissistic mask.

There is a much wider picture and one which asks questions of many, including the media & journalism.

There's a great deal of manipulation and exploitation happening and it is complex.

Sorry for the derail. But I wonder if people who have plastic surgery have weird numb patches and tingling sensations like you can get with other injuries. The face is so full on nerve endings - and the genitals - i'm sure you'd feel weird for the rest of your life. I've never heard it mentioned though.

Sentimental KP's son has Prader-Willi syndrome as far as I know.

It causes learning disabilities and stops you ever feeling full among other things.

But I wonder if people who have plastic surgery have weird numb patches and tingling sensations like you can get with other injuries.

I have had a small amount of plastic surgery. I have something that I consider to be a disfiguring condition and last year decided to get help with it.

It's been brilliant - I've done it for me although I was badly bullied for the condition growing up. But honestly that has nothing to do with my going ahead with tje surgery. If nothing else my condition would have led to some quite nasty complications further down the line had I left it so it really was for medical reasons as much as aesthetic ones. I'm not talking anything like a nose job.

And yes I have been left with extensive numb patches although each month the feeling returns a little more. I have difficulties believing transwomen when they say thet're suddenly having fantastic orgasms so soon after such drastic surgery, knowing how bad the numbness and tingling can be.

I feel sorry for India. How much healthier it would be to accept their healthy body as it is. India will almost certainly never be read as female. How liberating it might be to accept this.

Meh, good luck to IW who hopefully will be happier in themselves. Doesn't change any of the fundamental facts of biology of course.

TBH, I rarely think cosmetic surgery looks good. I look at Katie Price and wince at what she has done to herself, she was such a naturally pretty woman. But IW looks fine, not that totally fake looking outcome that some end up with: male and female and trans

Men can't become women or dragons or unicorns but there will always be those who provide smoke and mirrors in exchange for cold hard cash! It is a shame shallowness isn't seen as a changeable trait.

It's very sad that they cannot see they will never be seen as a woman, by many people.

Why don't Drs/ psychologists prepare these patients for the reality?

How could you claim this to be your authentic self when you need to completely change all aspects of your looks and physiology and attempt to belie your entire phenotype, to achieve what you apparently intrinsically are?
How can it be your authentic self when other peoples perception of you can trigger such a crisis?

This is surgery and medicalisation of a mismatch between the body and the minds perception of the body: and like with many other situations the surgical results will never satisfy because of the distortion of perception, and more and more extreme changes will be sought in pursuit of an unachivable goal (cf. Michael Jackson, Lola Ferrari, the Human Ken doll guy) etc

It's a surgery for vanity plain and simple. Just wanted to use something as an excuse or to get sympathy to look less self centered

One could make the sardonic quip "Welcome to the world of womanhood, love. Now you'll be worrying about how you look for the rest of your life."