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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Strong words from feminists unhappy with trans exclusionary ideology..

374 replies

crispbuttyfan · 23/05/2018 18:57

freedomnews.org.uk/its-spelt-sisterhood-not-cis-terhood-statement/

a little taster of the content, not my words....

"We are disgusted by the TERF techniques of bullying trans people and their friends and comrades. TERFs stand against a vulnerable minority by refusing their right to exist, using their dead names, doxxing them, smearing them online and in the press and waging a fear campaign, all whilst accusing trans women of being a possible legal and physical threat to cis women. These techniques are not consistent with their announced aim of getting legislation refused by parliament and belie the TERFs real agenda of intolerance.

We are sick and tired of TERF alarmism. There is no evidence that trans women are in any way a threat to cis women. To the contrary, there is a lot of evidence that TERFs feed the prejudice against trans women. The countries which introduced their own versions of GRA are not experiencing the problems the TERFs associate with allowing trans people to determine their own gender."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Offred · 24/05/2018 22:52

Sorry crisp but I don’t think anyone is remotely interested in where you live... Grin

Ereshkigal · 24/05/2018 22:53

Laurelai Bailey:

"If every time a TERF opened their mouths they got a fist in it they wouldn't open their fucking mouths"

Ereshkigal · 24/05/2018 22:56

And perhaps inspired Ada Cable:

"Imagine if twenty people had punched TERFs. Imagine if every TERF had left bruised and bloodied. Every one would stop organising."

I don't think so mate

spontaneousgiventime · 24/05/2018 22:57

If I found out Crisp lived in Lands end I'd move to John o'groats!

PencilsInSpace · 24/05/2018 23:00

Oh don't fret. Just pick a question, any question, and do your best to answer it in a reasonably honest way crisp. it's MN business as usual to ask an OP for their own thoughts on something they have posted. Across the site, on all topics:

OP: Here is an inflammatory article. What do MNers think?
All MNers who have been bitten at least once: What do you think of this article OP?

This is normal, this is MN, this is not peculiar to the femist chat topic. This huge site is full of brilliant women posting on all sorts of topics who can recognise goading when we see it.

Lay out your stall. Be honest about what you are arguing for. Then we can have a conversation.

crispbuttyfan · 24/05/2018 23:04

Offred
your just getting more and more bizarre, the hyde park event has been posted lots of time on here.... so everyone who posts something about it is promoting violence???
You are seriously saying because I posted a letter from feminists with a different point of view than you.... I am promoting violence??
Really? This is your level of debate? whatever...

Erishkagil
Student-level anti-trans propaganda sites like the one you just posted lays out you views quite clearly, these tactics have been used to silence all minorities since the invention of the printed press, where individuals are held up as representative of a class of people, I know you know this, and it is exactly the tactics you subscribe to.

Pencils
As ever anyone who dares to reject the anti-trans mantra is described as goady and gaslighting....
what do I think of the article? The whole of the article aside from hyde park which I already said was unhelpful, I think it has more merit and more based in reality than the general output and views of trans people generally on these 'feminism' boards.

OP posts:
Offred · 24/05/2018 23:04

Meh... I think we know what crisp thinks.

I think we know why crisp posted.

This is the kind of goady fuckery that is allowed now because it’s the kind of goady fuckery supported by the twitterati...

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 24/05/2018 23:05

Lang
"In the world of narcissistic ideologies, accusations are always admissions. Always worth remembering."

Can you explain this? I don't think I get it

crispbuttyfan · 24/05/2018 23:07

offred

You forgot gaslighting...

OP posts:
Offred · 24/05/2018 23:08

Yeah... crisp... you are right, it is exactly because I have a different point of view. You believe that violence against women by transwomen is justified and desirable in circumstances such as what happened at Hyde park... I absolutely don’t agree with that and since this is FWR I think you understand why that is the case.

I think that’s why you posted it here.

Like I said, we see you.

crispbuttyfan · 24/05/2018 23:10

offred
more non-sequitur martial arts in that post, you can try to put words in my mouth all you like, it seems to be a popular tactic with anyone who disagree's with you.

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 24/05/2018 23:10

we see you??
next you'll be telling me you know where I live....

I don't care where you live and I have no interest in outing you. We see you because we have eyes and can read the words you type. So can everyone else now this is going mainstream.

Ereshkigal · 24/05/2018 23:10

Student-level anti-trans propaganda sites like the one you just posted lays out you views quite clearly, these tactics have been used to silence all minorities since the invention of the printed press, where individuals are held up as representative of a class of people, I know you know this, and it is exactly the tactics you subscribe to.

Fascinating.

Any comment on the specific posts I shared about specific violent males wanting to silence women?

Offred · 24/05/2018 23:11

And nope, I said goady fuckery because you posted this thread, with this title, linking to that letter and then following it up with loads of tactics out of the MRA handbook (known as ‘the rules of debate’ in my house) to be goady.

You know you did.

I know you did.

We all know you did.

thebewilderness · 24/05/2018 23:12

"In the world of narcissistic ideologies, accusations are always admissions. Always worth remembering."

Can you explain this? I don't think I get it

Projection is the reason accusations are admissions.
In the Bancroft book he explains that when an abuser sees his dirty face in the mirror he washes the mirror.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 24/05/2018 23:12

I like urban dictionary...sometimes it can be very funny and/or true

1) An unconscious self-defence mechanism characterised by a person unconsciously attributing their own issues onto someone or something else as a form of delusion and denial

Does this remind you of anyone?

Anyone at all?

Ereshkigal · 24/05/2018 23:15

Projection is the reason accusations are admissions.
In the Bancroft book he explains that when an abuser sees his dirty face in the mirror he washes the mirror.

Yes. I also think narcissists get a kick out of the most audacious and outrageous reversal they can pull off.

Offred · 24/05/2018 23:15

The rules of debate;

DARVO, projection, insert catchphrases like ‘non-sequitur’ ‘ad hominem’ ‘strawman’ etc etc, gish gallop, links to pages explaining about terms over and over to give the appearance of authority, flounce, come back, repeat...

crispbuttyfan · 24/05/2018 23:16

Rufustheyawningreindeer
you just described the vast majority of this board! :-)

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 24/05/2018 23:16

Genuine lol

thebewilderness · 24/05/2018 23:19

Confirmation from crispy!
Priceless.

Offred · 24/05/2018 23:20

People who do ‘the rules of debate’ are rarely interested in having any kind of conversation. They are interested in the sound of their own voice and their ability to feel like they have dominated other people.

IJustHadToNameChange · 24/05/2018 23:28

We despise the use of the State to police our politics, bodies, personality and identities.When the TERFs an assaulted grandmother who also suffered from an act of criminal damage which was caught on camera recently prosecuted an anarchist trans woman violently inclined weirdo for assault, with the help of the M etropolitan P olice and the magistrates court [and the CPS, don't forget the CPS], they sent a message to us: they believe that using the law to defend free speech their opinions are more important than the well documented physical and mental risks the police and the courts system pose to minorities. White male is not a minority. We think this is abhorrent. It was a deliberate provocation of vulnerable trans community to get the desired result of them being arrested much like the actions of the Forward Intelligence Teams used by the police.

Don't be ridiculous. The job of the police is to uphold the law, investigate crimes and prevent law breaking and disorder.

We will never accept snitching to the police after an event, when the personal risk is over, to be a valid form of resistance.

Commit a crime in front of witnesses, then be prepared to do the time. No one should be able to act in a criminal manner without impunity.

What’s more, while unprovoked punching of people is almost never a good thing, what needs to be pointed out here is that claims this was an example of male on female violence are unfounded and bigoted.

No it's not. A six foot, violently inclined narcissist who believes he's above the law punched an old lady.

The aim of labelling it that is to add fuel to an alarmist scare campaign against trans people.

No. It's the truth. And it shows some TRAs are prepared to use violence to shut down any kind of debate.

We believe that the term invented by our sex worker comrades to describe TERFs and their counterparts Sex Worker Exclusionary Radical Feminists (SWERFs): “carceral feminism” is indeed correct.

Carceral feminism helped to make rape within marriage and male perpetrated violence against women and children a criminal offence and was opposed by religious leaders and conservative groups.

This unapologetic toss is not worth the effort it took to write it.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 24/05/2018 23:30

This thread provides a very good example of why women do not want men in women-only spaces.

spontaneousgiventime · 24/05/2018 23:31

This unapologetic toss is not worth the effort it took to write it. I am determined to remember this next time I am close to replying to someone not worth my time - Thank you!