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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Munroe Bergdorf 'What Makes a Woman' Channel 4 16/5

415 replies

R0wantrees · 16/05/2018 14:38

Extract from Radio Times:
www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-05-16/what-makes-a-woman-review-munroe-bergdorf-transgender-activist-debate/

"There are more moments of vulnerability when Bergdorf attends a discussion by a feminist group called We Need To Talk. There’s a real sense of menace in the air as transgender people gather outside to protest the meeting of so-called TERFS – Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists – who believe trans women are not female but are in fact men threatening to infiltrate women’s space.

Bergdorf is extremely articulate in one to one interviews so it’s a shame she doesn’t feel able to stay and debate them, but it’s also understandable – the atmosphere inside the meeting is toxic and she’s surrounded on all sides.

“When we [see] events like this, which directly are designed to deny [transgender women’s] very identities and the fact that we even exist, it’s extremely hurtful and concerning,” she says as she leaves. But she later sits down with one of the organisers, Venice Allan (aka Dr Radfem, just in case you were in any doubt).

They have an interesting debate about female and transgender rights, but it ends tellingly with the good Dr declaring “feminism is about women!” when surely feminism is about equality....

Concludes:
What Makes a Woman provides a valuable grounding in the ins and outs of the transgender debate for those of us who could use it – but it’s also a profile of a intriguing, sensitive, likeable person who is herself still on a journey of discovery."

What Makes a Woman is on tonight, Wednesday 16th May, at 10pm on Channel 4 and available afterwards on All4

OP posts:
TwittleBee · 16/05/2018 22:26

JoanSummers exactly! Sitting here 11 months post partum and feeling sick at these Men's ideas of women's appearances ! (I also sit firmly in the zero boob camp despite BFing!)

MrsWooster · 16/05/2018 22:27

First two answers in group refer to appearance... edit??

CoolCarrie · 16/05/2018 22:28

I think Monroe looked good without the make and those yellow braids.

JoanSummers · 16/05/2018 22:28

Oh this is interesting. How many of those women feel pressured to say nice but untrue things in front of MB and on camera?

MrsWooster · 16/05/2018 22:28

Not a change, an alignment" here comes the woo

Cooroo · 16/05/2018 22:28

Chromosomes!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 22:28

You would have thought a Cambridge researcher would know the difference between sex and gender!

2rebecca · 16/05/2018 22:29

My engineer husband heard the title and said "that's easy genes, do I win?"
He also agreed with me that Monroe looked more feminine pre plastic surgery with natural hair and looked artificially feminine after surgery. I suspect this wasn't the first stuff on Monroes face ? fillers etc

JoanSummers · 16/05/2018 22:29

"Do you see me as a woman?"
"You look like a woman"

The women around that table look like women. MB doesn't look anything like any of them.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 22:29

Nice bit of ageism there...

MrsWooster · 16/05/2018 22:30

The thing in the back of their heads isn't society, it's common sense and biological nous.

CoolCarrie · 16/05/2018 22:30

Good for you Pauline!

Lefthanddown · 16/05/2018 22:30

I don't think it's just age that doesn't accept gender, I've spoken to a number of young people who don't understand

JoanSummers · 16/05/2018 22:31

"Some of my tweets were dug up and taken out of context"

I just properly laughed out loud.

Here comes the history rewrite. "I'm literally a different person now", yadda yadda.

CoolCarrie · 16/05/2018 22:31

The whole programme is an ego trip

MrsWooster · 16/05/2018 22:31

Also "model MB" ? One catwalk and a photo shoot doesn't a model make.

Picassospaintbrush · 16/05/2018 22:31

The high cost, high maintenance authenticity dichotomy goes over their heads.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 22:32

I notice they may use different language now, but I don't see them apologising for past comments...

TwittleBee · 16/05/2018 22:32

"Identity" - we studied this during my politics and sociology Degree and it's so fluid and undefined that it is almost pointless as a term because it can't be pinned down or scientifically measured.

...

Also those women are basing their views on society - they're sick of society's stereotypical view of women and men! The crap about age is pissing me off, I'm only 24!

JoanSummers · 16/05/2018 22:32

I feel like I'm being trolled by C4, getting Handmaids Tale ads in the break!

MrsWooster · 16/05/2018 22:32

The tweet abuse is vile but its inclusion here makes it a pitymebio,not an examination of what makes a woman. What is the mission statement if this programme?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/05/2018 22:33

I'm liking the Handmaids Tale advert placing Grin

CoolCarrie · 16/05/2018 22:33

At least there is a trailer for The Handmaid’s Tale !!!

spontaneousgiventime · 16/05/2018 22:33

My daughters are peak trans, they're in their 20's and 30's. Nice try with the ageism MB.

TwittleBee · 16/05/2018 22:33

CoolCarrie yupp! That much was obvious when MB said that only MB can be main focal point and narrator