Hi Mumsnet, if you are asking feminist women to consider whether Mumsnet is for them, please be clear that the space *we* made here is for *all* of us.

[leyat]

So apparently MNHQ is asking women they are suspending for saying things like men are men, to consider whether Mumsnet is for them.

I feel it's important to be clear that we want feminist women to have a home here, we - all the women who engage here - have made this board what it is (I'm relatively new so I am in awe of the women who have been shaping this wonderful space all this time) and we don't want women excluded from this space because they won't lie about biology and acquiesce to misogyny and genderism.

This is meant to be a kind of refuge for us, where we do not have to submit to male authority, where we can let off steam and share without needing to worry about dealing with misogyny, and where we can feel a degree of safety and find sisterhood. I can't think of anything more awful than a woman who comes here to share in this, in this one space we have that's meant to be ours, to then be told she should consider excluding herself because she won't bow to male authority on what a woman is.

So it needs saying, Mumsnet, this is a board for all feminist women, we don't want anyone excluded or made to feel that this space isn't for them too. And please understand many women come here from backgrounds of abuse, we do live in a climate of male violence and misogyny that is currently getting worse, so I hope MNHQ take time to ask themselves how they want to treat women who come here. Mumsnet own the site, but it's the women who use this space who made it the vibrant refuge of sisterhood and resistance that it is, so please don't shit on that or indeed on the women who actually engage on your forum.

Mumsnet without feminism,

Mumsnet will still have feminism. The strand of radical feminism, particularly the lesbian separatist radical feminism that dominates this board is not representative of the wider movement of feminism. That includes trans-positive feminism.

born with xy chromosomes= man, now and always. If this is somewhere that can't hear that then it isn't the place for me.

That's not true. There are androgen insensitivity women, who are xy. AIS is about 1 in 13,000 (to 99,000) births. Sarah Gronert the retired women's tennis player is one of them.

OK, I'm still learning here.

Just went, hang on - 'Lesbian separatist feminism'? This is new? We have TERFS thrown at people as a slur, do we now have LSFs? (Cos everything needs an acronym!) From what I've read on the boards here, there is a very wide mix of people posting, some lesbians, some bisexual, some straight.

I haven't seen a lesbian 'agenda' dominating the board. I've seen a huge mix of people, many of whom are concerned at what seems an aggressive attack on lesbians (female biological humans) who don't wish to include 'female penises' in the definition of their sexuality. Or should that be 'peni' - MN grammarians!?

Is this another interesting linguistic yoga move to separate, exclude and isolate people within a debate?

I'm off to twitter-land to see if this is a new development, much like 'women with a trans experience'.

If only this whole issue didn't affect women's rights so directly, I'd find it a fascinating theoretical experience.

Trouble is, it does.

the lesbian separatist radical feminism that dominates this board

This is about those pesky lesbians who don't want to have sex with men rather than the original concept of it I assume.

Separatist? You are trying to make women who don't want to be around men, sound like insurgents or terrorists. Shame on you.

I don't think Magdalen Berns posts on Mumsnet but perhaps she is someone who Supermatch is thinking of as representing 'The strand of radical feminism, particularly the lesbian separatist radical feminism that dominates here'?

(I'm straight by the way so will just link to Magdalen speaking for herself:)

no idea where the smiley face came from... it was supposed to be closed bracket!

I was accused today of being an extremist for stating that women are oppressed...

#shrug# it’s just the modern way of shutting someone down isn’t it? Bigot/xophobe/extremist/feminazi- all the same.

That's not true. There are androgen insensitivity women, who are xy. AIS is about 1 in 13,000 (to 99,000) births. Sarah Gronert the retired women's tennis player is one of them.

Genetically she is Male. XY, XYY is Male. We treat DSD/intersex patients as individual one offs. They are not some kind of ‘but, but what about iiiiintersex!’ Whiny loophole in the argument. Otherwise we are back to the sodding clownfish.

Human sex is a binary - rare abnormalities no more change that than a child born with sirenomelia changes the fact that the default number of human lower limbs is two. Or a child born with severe holoprocencephaly would ‘prove’ that the default number of eyes isn’t two.

Hi Supermatch! Radical feminist here who can't be a lesbian separatist on account of not being a lesbian. Not that I don't support lesbian separatists, because I do, I just find it hilarious and telling that you assumed that's what we all were. Those prejudices just leak out even when you're trying to hide them, eh?

Yyy re AIS. They are male.

Well, yes Juzza12

Unless of course you believe someone with a penis can be a woman and a lesbian and therefore any lesbians with XX chromosomes who won't have sex with them are transphobic and lesbian separatists.

rticularly the lesbian separatist radical feminism that dominates this board is not representative of the wider movement of feminism

Dont be silly

Ok

Oh that was easy supermatch

I don't disagree completely with you at all

Apart from that bit...that bit i really disagree with

But the rest? Not so much

Hi Angry. I didn't assume that at all - I've read your references to your dh several times before.

The strand of radical feminism, particularly the lesbian separatist radical feminism that dominates this board

I didn't say everyone with that view was lesbian separatist. Just that was one element of the very visible radical feminist perspective here.

Uh-oh. I might sod off now as the Saturday night drinking seems to have started..

h-oh. I might sod off now as the Saturday night drinking seems to have started

What?

Are we all mean to be suitable chastened because Supermatch doesn't approve of us being radical feminists? Cause nah.

Well i don't know angry

I can't work out whether super is off to get pissed or is saying posters on this thread are pissed

I have one response for the former and another for the latter

My response is "have fun then" in either case. Or would be if I thought fun was something Supermatch was capable of having.

(Seems a bit dour as a person thus far.)

Well that would be my response to the first one

Cakes to ice...

All I wanted was a yes or a no...