Hi Mumsnet, if you are asking feminist women to consider whether Mumsnet is for them, please be clear that the space *we* made here is for *all* of us.

[leyat]

So apparently MNHQ is asking women they are suspending for saying things like men are men, to consider whether Mumsnet is for them.

I feel it's important to be clear that we want feminist women to have a home here, we - all the women who engage here - have made this board what it is (I'm relatively new so I am in awe of the women who have been shaping this wonderful space all this time) and we don't want women excluded from this space because they won't lie about biology and acquiesce to misogyny and genderism.

This is meant to be a kind of refuge for us, where we do not have to submit to male authority, where we can let off steam and share without needing to worry about dealing with misogyny, and where we can feel a degree of safety and find sisterhood. I can't think of anything more awful than a woman who comes here to share in this, in this one space we have that's meant to be ours, to then be told she should consider excluding herself because she won't bow to male authority on what a woman is.

So it needs saying, Mumsnet, this is a board for all feminist women, we don't want anyone excluded or made to feel that this space isn't for them too. And please understand many women come here from backgrounds of abuse, we do live in a climate of male violence and misogyny that is currently getting worse, so I hope MNHQ take time to ask themselves how they want to treat women who come here. Mumsnet own the site, but it's the women who use this space who made it the vibrant refuge of sisterhood and resistance that it is, so please don't shit on that or indeed on the women who actually engage on your forum.

I think scolding others is fun for some people, Rufus, or at least an approximation of "fun". If it wasn't why would they devote so much time to doing it?

Seems like an odd hobby to me but it takes all sorts, as my granny would have said.

Very odd hobby!!

I've been drinking. Jus' sayin'.

That does not surprise me at all lang

Juzza and Bowl summed it up on the AIS thing.

I would add, AIS is an intersex condition, and NOTHING to do with trans. AIS people are genetically male, true, but also have a very female appearance (because of the lack of response to androgens). They also have a very female stature and body form too. The default human being female, these are genetic males that failed to develop along male lines.

It was actually radical feminists that came up with the terminology of FAB/FAAB (female at birth/female assigned at birth), the purpose of which was to be inclusive of intersex that had been raised as girls. A few years later, TRAs hijacked that terminology, and made it CAMAB (coercively assigned male at birth) etc. That is their MO, to rip off stuff and change it for their own purposes. Honestly, if they had an original thought, it would be lonely.

That does not surprise me at all lang

I can still formulate a sentence though. Do I get a reindeer point for that? Pretty please?

One point...just the one

Merci bien!

It had to be one point cos i couldn't find a reindeer holding up more than one finger

You'd think there would be loads...but strangely, no

It was actually radical feminists that came up with the terminology of FAB
^truth^
Fabulous FABs.

TRAs hijacked that terminology, and made it CAMAB (coercively assigned male at birth) etc. That is their MO, to rip off stuff and change it for their own purposes. Honestly, if they had an original thought, it would be lonely.
More truth. They're imitators.

Can I just point out the oddness of reindeers holding up fingers at all?

BTW I found your spiritual home, just a little early holiday suggestion...

www.visitrovaniemi.fi/

am deleting my account after this post for just the above reasons. this no longer is a place for me.

kr1stiina - I was just thinking that I would stick around after all. Maybe you will too?

Mumsnet will still have feminism. The strand of radical feminism, particularly the lesbian separatist radical feminism that dominates this board is not representative of the wider movement of feminism. That includes trans-positive feminism.

Clearly SmG subscribes to the
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

In my opinion it is Rebellious Women looking for support and sisterhood at a very difficult time who dominate this board.
There are only a handful of Radical Feminists here as far as I can tell, and not so very many Lesbians either. Way too many men though.

Juzza12 I've been a radical feminist lesbian separatist since the 1980's. Always thought we'd have our own country by now, or at least a nice big castle, with a moat, and crocodiles. Our own well guarded borders, and flying cars.

They promised me a jet pack!

If TRAs were after men with equal vigor, because transmen feel excluded, I'd be confused about whether they had a point. If men had to call themselves cismen. If the word tall was out (the term henceforth shall be "overhigh"). Nobody could discuss ejaculation ("bottom sneezing"! for heaven's sake, get your language right!).

But no. It's only women who are supposed to erase themselves to make somebody else feel better. Admittedly, that's such a new concept I'm not sure how they managed to think of it.

It's also only women, out of all the different ways people categorize humans, only women who aren't given the courtesy of defining their own group. Can't imagine why that would be.

YY quixote

Not going after male forums

Not inventing new words and phrases for men

Saying transmen are misogynistic and privileged

Keeping men only things when it suits you such as primogeniture

Getting rid of childrens safeguarding

Threatening to rape women who argue with you

I see you , you dumb TRA fuckers, its fucking obvious what you are doing and soon it will be fucking obvious to everyone

@SupermatchGame you said 'Mumsnet will still have feminism. The strand of radical feminism, particularly the lesbian separatist radical feminism that dominates this board is not representative of the wider movement of feminism. That includes trans-positive feminism.'

So where are they? MN FWR is full of gender critical women, some may be radfems and some not, but the gender politics is resolutely gender critical on here, and this is on a feminism board on the largest site for women in the UK where anyone can join, so the only rational take from that, is that the feminism found here is representative. So called 'trans positive' feminism isn't feminism at all, it's a backlash against feminism. There is no gender analysis, because it is a genderist feminism that believes in a gendered brain, and as such that most women have a lady brain that makes us do lady things.

So rather than continuously trying to denigrate the women who use these boards, why not offer your gender analysis up instead and have a real feminist debate? Because that is what the gender critical women who populate these boards and feminism have outlined throughout this board, and so far you have said absolutely nothing that challenges our gender analysis.

There is no analysis. There is no argument, or debate, or putting forward of evidence.

Why? Because the stance is hollow. It has no analysis that can stand up to even the slightest of breezes. It has no data - the science blows it out of the water.

It is insubstantial and hollow and as such it can ONLY be sustained by verbal and then physical violence.

It will be a great shame if women who are concerned for women's issues are chased away from Mumsnet by a movement that is heavily MRA backed.