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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

T

999 replies

DonnaBe · 06/04/2018 07:41

Mumsnet has been invaded by a small group of people who are giving out wrong information about the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.

They claim that women’s spaces are being invaded and women are being silenced. Please read this and make up your own minds!

A gender Self ID law – like the one proposed in the UK - was recently introduced in Ireland. To change your gender on government records, you need to sign a Statutory Declaration in front of a solicitor and declare that you are living in your acquired gender and intend to stay that way. This is a legal document.

Self ID has not caused problems in Ireland. This is the kind of thing that is being proposed in the UK. It's about making a statement under oath about your acquired gender.

It has been claimed that anyone will be able to claim to be the opposite gender whenever they want. Not true. Nobody is proposing that big blokes with beards can say “I am a woman today” and have legal protection to use women’s loos. If they were, I would be campaigning against it. That is absolutely not what is being proposed

The group behind this campaign are not new. They have been conducting anti-trans campaigns for many years. I don’t think their agenda is women’s welfare so much as expressing their hatred for trans people. The self id proposals have given them an opportunity to attack trans people. Again. They claim they are being silenced, but their views are regularly aired on TV and in the newspapers. And on Mumsnet. They have a right to speak, but I wish they’d tell the truth.

Believe it or not, this all starts with a discussion about marriage. Before 2004, trans people could not marry or stay married because there was no legal way to change the gender on their birth certificates. There was no same sex marriage back then.

The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 introduced the ability to stand in front of a Gender Recognition Panel (cost £140) and get a Gender Recognition Certificate which allowed you to change your birth certificate and get married! This is a bureaucratic arrangement that involves an element of body policing which is not nice.

The proposal now is to replace the GRP / GRC arrangement with a legally binding statutory declaration. Or something like that. That’s all. No whimsical notions like “It’s Friday. I’m a woman today.”

In fact, you can now get married if your transgendered under same sex marriage legislation. So getting a GRC is less relevant. I don’t know if there’s any research on this, but my feeling is most trans people don’t bother getting a GRC anyway.

So this is how things stand today:

There is no law banning men from women’s toilets and changing rooms. There’s only an unwritten rule. The recent Man Friday campaign where women invaded men’s toilets could have the contradictory effect of weakening this rule and end up harming women. The logical conclusion of their campaign is body policing with guards on women’s toilets and women will have to prove their gender before having a pee.

Trans women already use women’s toilets and changing rooms. I do. Nobody notices. I don’t make a song and dance about it. There is no slackening of the law defending women’s spaces because there is no such law. We get on fine without it.

The Gender Recognition Act makes exceptions for things like women’s refuges. These exceptions should be used where appropriate. Already law. Not changing.

You can live in your non-birth gender already. If you pass as that gender well enough, you just do it. You don’t need a law or certificate to do it. Thousands of people live this way and nobody is harmed by it.

OP posts:
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AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 06/04/2018 23:02

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Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 23:03

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AngryAttackKittens · 06/04/2018 23:04

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Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 23:05

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth
The Royal navy have bunks with very low headroom between them, I've had a demonstration of how they use them to perform such activities.

thebewilderness · 06/04/2018 23:06

I am not so good with facial recognition but I can identify voices extremely well.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 23:09

In a way Ted reminds me of Donald Trump. They deleted my post!

TERFragetteCity · 06/04/2018 23:09

Not just me then thinking 'they've put some clever sounding words together to try and look really intelligent and therefore educated, whilst saying absolutely nothing at all' then.

Not just that, deliberately making no actual point in order to flounce out because people don't understand them...sigh..first year undergraduate behaviour.

LangCleg · 06/04/2018 23:10

I have no idea what's going on!

BudgieInABeret · 06/04/2018 23:11

Assigned - I think I love you

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 06/04/2018 23:11

Not sure either. What did you DO, mouthy?

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 23:13

Movies must now be censored as trans-phobic. My goodness me. A CGI teddy bear can no longer speak the truth. I will be writing to the film board to let them know.

BudgieInABeret · 06/04/2018 23:15

Lang I don't think anyone knows what is going on

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 23:19

ted 2 movie funny scenes

Its all there, a teddy bear speaks the truth, mermaids we don't believe them, we believe the teddy bears.

chandlersfraud · 06/04/2018 23:20

I just want there to be proper debate and discussion. I found the OP quite helpful and educating. What I find very concerning about this whole thing is the way that any debate seems to get shut down (and to me this seems to be more on the transactivist side) with accusations of transphobia thrown at anyone who raises concerns and questions.

AngryAttackKittens · 06/04/2018 23:21

Ted came across as a lot smarter and less reality-challenged than certain individuals who run charities associated with trans children, imo.

@LangCleg Pull up a chair for the "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance distract them with bullshit" show! With side note about facial recognition skills.

TERFragetteCity · 06/04/2018 23:23

So funny that Ted triggered someone to report it.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 23:25

Yes, the Ted 2 movie is the most truthful thing I've seen recently out there on this subject.

ClaraMumsnet · 06/04/2018 23:27

Hi all, while we're happy to have debate here, we can only do so if it's a useful and civil discussion. We will delete posts which are designed to provoke, goad and inflame. Please keep our Talk Guidelines in mind when posting.

LangCleg · 06/04/2018 23:28

I found the OP quite helpful and educating.

Excellent. Have you identified the invaders, so we can all keep an eye out?

PencilsInSpace · 06/04/2018 23:32

I found the OP quite helpful and educating.

Yes, back on topic. What did you learn from the OP and how did it help?

LangCleg · 06/04/2018 23:32

Pull up a chair for the "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance distract them with bullshit" show! With side note about facial recognition skills.

I've got male pattern abusive behaviour recognition skillz but I got into trouble earlier using them in public.

So now, in an attempt to be good, I'm going to declare my unique talent for er... er... er... oh. The only one I have is shouting my gob off. So I'm buggered.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 06/04/2018 23:33

Mmm yes. The internet is drenched in the worst porn you have ever seen or imagined. A funny film drawing attention to this and how damaging that is to men and boys and women and girls must not have attention drawn to it.

We must all pretend the men involved are saintly paragons of virtue. Nope.

aRespectableBureaudeChange · 06/04/2018 23:35

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PrivatePie · 06/04/2018 23:36

The OP has posted on Twitter, on a thread about the murder of a trans woman in Brazil, that because of this thread they have been "hated at least 500 times on MN today" and they're recovering from the "abuse" they received here.

aRespectableBureaudeChange · 06/04/2018 23:37

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