Radio 4 now

[Pratchet]

Listen back to Lucy Massoud on Radio 4 - she is stellar. She's on now.

I love the way they shout “Ooo, that’s transphobic” all the time 😂

Lucy on Twitter saying it was a very awkward lift journey afterwards

Lucy was great - only extra thing to be added re violence and intimidation was someone has been charged with assault of a woman trying to get to a public meeting to discuss women's issues with self-id and that same Trans Identified Man was filmed, with others, assaulting a woman trade unionist on a picket line just because she'd attended a public meeting to discuss women's concerns

Well done Lucy. So articulate

Not to mention all the misogyny and death threats towards women on social media.

Did anyone else think Emily seemed to be advocating for a legal process for self-ID? That's not what my understanding of the proposed amendments to the GRA are about at all.

The Today program needs to meet Phil Bunce and read the Stonewall guidelines on gender expression!

And yet whenever someone says "what about men who wake up and decide which gender to be?" the vitriolic denials kick off and echo for a long time.

It infuriates me how trans ideology relies on a fact having meaning A in one context and the direct opposite meaning B in another context. Lies run through it like through rock.

Would someone mind tweeting this link to both Lucy and radio four.

It is a catalogue, written by Dr Nic Williams, of the ways in which women are being threatened and shutdown.

It's grim, compelling and irrefutable.

This is the second radio programme in two days that is scathing about women's claims of censorship.
This needs to get out there.

Only thing we need to do is have this debate. The facts are clear, we just have to say them.

fairplayforwomen.com/misogyny_hate_silencing/

Point 3.0 onwards is the blood pressure moment.

Did anyone else think Emily seemed to be advocating for a legal process for self-ID?

Emily was arguing for the need to make a statutory declaration and then present it to a court. This was said in a way suggesting it would be a significant and onerous exercise. However, as is bloody typical in this area, that's misleading. More likely it would mean a few minutes in a solicitor's office and a few minutes filling in a form to go off with the stat dec in the post.

I came on here to see if anyone had heard the Radio 4 Program and I'm so glad it appears to have reached a wide audience.

I thought Lucy was brilliant; very calm, measured, held her ground and wouldn't be silenced. I'm very glad she mentioned the indimidation that's been going on and the woman that was attacked as that doesn't appear to have received much mainstream attention in the press.

I loved the last bit...

"It's not transphobic, you just don't agree with it"

I agree with what Captain said too:

I support Lucy's view, and thought Emily was being ridiculous to deny what's going on, but it was very clear that Emily simply cannot understand the point. Cannot grasp that there is more for a woman to being a woman than deciding to be a woman, and that the aggressive and denying stance of some vocal trans activists is so very recognisable as a very familiar male misogynist approach.

Couldn't agree more.

Such good points made here.

I came into this discussion on MN just about a month ago and it was like entering the Twilight Zone, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of people still have no idea of what's being proposed.

At first reading, its all so unbelievable, especially as I, like many others I suspect, don't come across TIMs and TIFs in my day to day life (not that I'm aware of, anyway, and certainly no activists), so perhaps this explains the apparent apathy/ lack of awareness amongst the general public.

I live in the rural north...is it perhaps more of an issue in the urban/student areas?

Yes nauticant I can see it becoming as simple as the 'change of name' process is now - just fill in a form, pay and off you go with your new identity.

"Women with trans experience" suggests to me the TRA's are on the back foot and trying to change the rhetoric.

Lucy was fantastic.

It looks like @sturdyalex has removed that whole thread. He’s still available for tweeting on Pilgrim Tucker’s thread on this though

What a fantastic interview, not least because of Justin Webb's excellent skills as an interviewer, it could so easily have been derailed.

Lucy Masoud is exactly what we need. A measured, brave and articulate woman who is able to put the arguments across in a calm and respectful way. And the ending was fabulous. I can't imagine there's a retired colonel in the country who didn't butter his toast this morning with a new-found awareness of the issue.

Red and orange, agree, every now and then there's a change of tack across the board which seems to come from the mothership. About six months ago, it was 'trans women are women' as a mantra in response to any question. Then #nodebate. There's a shift in direction which pops up everywhere overnight. It's deep PR.

Thanks BoreOfWhabylon. Have listened and attempted to tweet my MP. It was an excellent interview. Manfriday seems to really have brought this issue in to the mainstream this week, challenging the "transwomen are transwomen" narrative and "no debate" with some top notch women speaking out, including some of our own! Am I naive in thinking this is now on the table for proper debate and not a foregone conclusion?

Just listened.

What the hell was Emily on about she made no sense at all. Massive contradictions.

Lucy was fab.

Ha Pratchet! Great minds etc!

It gives me the rage MaudlinMews. There is a pressure to remove the difficulties and medicalisation of the GRC process, and if they break through, then just about any aspect of the replacement self-ID process that requires and demonstrates commitment will be exlcuded.

The next things to go would be the need to ID with one particular gender (bi-gender people anyone?) and the need to be fixed in a gender (because that would exclude the gender fluid) meaning that gender (as a proxy for sex) could vary from hour to hour.

Lucy is my new hero.

Little😎

The bloke who said he would upload the awfully transphobic clip has .. deleted his tweet. Alex Andreou.

Bore - I can't find Lucy on twitter

@Pratchet

Alex has retweeted with an edited clip of Lucy. It's not going as well as I think he'd hoped

twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/976405387929903105

It's @luluchops1 @Pratchet.