19 year old DD tells me ALL boys want to throttle.

[Spidermama]

I've just been left feeling really angry and powerless. DD tells me pretty much all boys 'even nice ones' like to put their hands around girl's throats semi strangling them as part of sex. She's told me other horrible things about what girls her age are fully expected to put up with.
She says the boys get it from porn and there's nothing unusual about it.

I and I'm sure many of us women, have put up with things during sex that we've not really liked just to get it over with. But this is getting ridiculous! It makes me so sad to think of all these young women having to put up with these levels of violence and hatred in something which is supposed to be enjoyable for them.

What can she do. I know how hard it is to stop things being done to you mid act.

Oh thanks @QuentinSummers - I'm posted to bump it

I believe if you fix the empathy problem the rest will follow on from that.

Sourpatch that would be brilliant. I'm new to mumsnet, I only signed up in the past couple of months and haven't explored past the feminism boards yet. Sorry to sound silly but what is AiBU? I'm still navigating this wonderful new world.

Spreading the word is key. Ann Summers provides a flash point and while discussing Ann Summers we get to talk about the content on pornhub & in porn more generally. It provides a focal point for protests about porn and a first domino to knock over hopefully. Write to the Children's Trust as well as the head of Ann Summers (Jaqueline Gold) is a trustree of the charity. The most popular categories on Pornhub are teen & incest.

Gail Dines is the current leading expert. She argues that pornography needs to be considered a public health crisis akin to tobacco use. (As a smoker I don't like using the analogy, but see her point). Her website has a resources page if you would like to do further reading & I personally recommend Pornland:
gaildines.com/resources/
I've attached images which can be used as flyers or stickers. Share far & war wide including other mumsnet boards.

Navigating Pornhub wise as well as just sending people to the front page, recommend hovering over the button 'porn videos' - brings up a dropdown menu at the side with a 'most viewed' option. click it. This brings up a pop up which is usually a live sex cam, x and disregard. On the most viewed page there is a sub-top-heading bar where one can set nationality and time period. This month in the U.K. 'FamilyStrokes - Scared Stepdaughter Gets Fucked While Wife Sleeps' is popular with 12.5 million, 'Destroy my teen pussy with huge cock and cum on me' has 6.2 million views. And on and on.

BertrandRussell. I think probably not. Sorry about your daughter but knowing the girls very well and their partners really quite well, it would appear balanced in the girls favour. Certainly no controlling or disrespectful behaviours. The girls talk freely about their lives (the boys perhaps in less detail) and discuss their partners with me and each other. I do think having very close sibling helps them to be open and to compare.

Most abusive the youngest ones partner has been was laughing for too long when she tried to carry his golf clubs and fell over backwards. He regrets doing so still. The other lads are gentle, soft, good communicators. Not all men are bad.

"Most abusive the youngest ones partner has been was laughing for too long when she tried to carry his golf clubs and fell over backwards."

Oh come on, that's hilarious. Although why was she carrying them for him?

"'FamilyStrokes - Scared Stepdaughter Gets Fucked While Wife Sleeps'"

Stepdaughter/wife - implying incest and minor . Scared - rape. what the fuck?

"Not all men are bad"

Did I say they were?

Nothing to see here.

Coming back to this now I've had time to read and digest. Am feeling sad and scared for the younger generation.

There is one bit that I take issue with. This idea that "whatever consenting adults want to do is normal and A-OK". I disagree. There's nothing normal about putting your hands round someone's neck, and causing them to not be able to get enough oxygen. It's not "normal" to want that, and it's not "normal" to want to do that. I simply can't imagine that it doesn't speak to a person having had some level of distress, of abuse, of coercion, of violence in their lives that has become incorporated into their sex life. Same with cutting yourself. Same with anything that involves blood or harm.

If that's your "normal", then something has gone wrong for your somewhere.

I really can't get on board with this drive to normalise extreme and dysfunctional behaviour as if it was all just sex, and we should loosen up. My pearls remain resolutely clutched.

Also, porn can get fucked. It absolutely is a public health crisis and I am fed up of it being painted as liberating, or daring, or counter cultural and anyone who opposes it is reactionary or conservative. There's nothing more reactionary or conservative than women being abused and controlled by men to meet their sexual needs. Blurgh.

Not all men are bad

We know.

I am not sure what the pornhub search rankings signify or how valid they actually are.
Are they genuinely catering to their audience's 'needs' or are they imposing their own needs on their audience (by pushing the type of material they have available)?

One thing's for sure though, an awful lot of pornography is being consumed, either by a relative few (which suggests a serious addiction issue), or by a large number of people (which suggests there is some fundamental need for it).

Was this need always there? I'm really not sure it was. Without doubt men have always been visually stimulated and few would ever refuse a glance at pornography at least at some point in their lives, but I just don't think the 'need' was ever at the levels it seems to be at today.

Yes, I know not every man is this way, and I know that some women enjoy some forms of pornography too, but I'm talking 'on the whole'.

My gut instinct tells me we're being conditioned. The curious nature of children (who would once perhaps looked at a naked picture in a magazine, or even through a biology book) is now being exploited to the point that they can easily see virtually every bodily function presented in a sexual scenario, and very little other material to offer balance to their view of what is normal.

It isn't just the boy being conditioned either. If girls satisfy their own curiosity about sexual acts online, they are faced with plenty of women in pornography seemingly more than happy to engage in the extreme acts. This makes it appear that this is normal for women too. Is it any wonder a young girl might think this is what's expected of her?

Write to the Children's Trust as well as the head of Ann Summers (Jaqueline Gold) is a trustree of the charity. The most popular categories on Pornhub are teen & incest

She should be ashamed of herself. Here is a woman's choice I will not be supporting.

My daughter is bisexual

I very much hope that she will choose to have sexual relationships with women, not men.

Fingers crossed.

Unfortunately it's far more mainstream conditioning than just porn our teens are confronted with. Porn is obviously harmful to the delicate stage of our developing hormonal teen CHILDREN and I bold that as teens are too often spoken about like they are mini adults, (a number of child psychologists say adolescence goes on to early 20's).

Stuff they can watch on mainstream telly includes Geordie Shore, naked attraction and my teenage DS was watching MTV on catchup,(what I used to think was a music channel) & it had this shit on 'content includes faster orgasms, anal sex and blow job technique'

Of course as well the majority of women on 'naked dating' or whatever the fuck it's called are fully shaven.

Where to start? Talk to them, explaining love and affection are key and as cheesy as some think it maybe- a bit of old fashioned romance

The whole body hair thing seems to be another example of conditioning and it's affecting women's views of men too. Sales of Veet must be through the roof for men and women.

@ContemporaryPankhurst (brilliant username by the way!)

Click the link @QuentinSummers shared further down which takes you to the thread in chat. Come join us there - I think it might be good to have your voice heard (someone had posted that they think porn hub is vanilla! What the fuck?!)

Chat and AIBU (which stands for -!am I bring unreasonable) are the most popular parts of mumsnet so get the most traffic. AIBU is full of people who often just want to fight amongst themselves but if it highlights this issue I'm happy to be called a cunt...

Pornsick users have claimed for years that all men use porn. They have put some serious effort into convincing women and girls that all men are indeed like that by mainstreaming porn and abuse as normal and so abuse is all that is on offer.
It is a Big Lie.

Someone's popped on to say it's better paedophiles watch acted underage because it'll stop them actually abusing children
Why do people have such low expectations of men? Why can't they be expected to just.....not?

I think it's a learning opportunity. Talking to you not porn obviously to discuss consent and the importance of how to say no and reject things she's not comfortably with

Thank you Sourpatch ! I will see you over there if not today then maybe Thursday although at some stage I will have to get some work done.

TheBrilliantMistake I think I get your point and it is a good one about demand. Pornhub data is significant for actual consumption numbers and we correlate what is being viewed with what is being said in industry magazines, on the porn message boards and what the industry reports are wider trends. Also, prostituted women reporting changes when they start talking about their experiences and what 'services' are being sold. I had a research trip to Bucharest and sex slavery/prostituted women is ubiquitous there. From flyers in the hotel lobby the websites were advertising 'electric fun' (a.k.a torture through electric shocks to the genitals & breasts), group anal, hardcore BDSM and sadism etc. In the U.K. its a little more covert for the more obviously torture stuff but London escorts advertise anal as standard and double penetration (two penises in one oriface at one time, usually anal) is getting very common. Its listed under the women's 'likes'. As if! Also, they never have a dislike page.

I doubt that 12 million feminists have watched that video to see for themselves this month. Pornhub itself is driving demand however the increasing violence is affecting the industry not in terms of porn makers are feeling bad about what they are doing but the practicalities shift. It becomes more expensive to produce and less profits are generated because of the free sites, thus they have to ramp up the violence of behind paywall as well. This is causing legal problems - anal prolapse is a big issue as it requires medical attention & the medics can decide to involve police because one cannot legally consent to some things. The increasing paedification is getting us (anti-porn) closer to getting some convictions. Max Hardcore is one such fellow that is skating on thin ice now I hope.

It may not be all men but it is a significant number and porn has pornified our culture. From music videos to how girls & women pose for photographs. One scary thing is the rise in women looking away, or looking corpse like and generally looking un-engaged in advertisements. Gone are the days of 'laughing at salad'. In the single year 2015 more porn was consumed on pornhub than humans have walked this earth. That is more than a few addicts. That is not because of increasing feminist interest. thenextweb.com/insider/2016/01/08/thats-a-whole-lotta-porn/
The report says 'We watched' in the headline which I think supports thebewilderness 's argument.

I would also warn parents to check the content coming up on auto-play on youtube.
www.engadget.com/2017/11/22/youtube-child-exploiting-channels-videos/
www.kedoo.com/youtube/en/youtube_blocking_top_kids_channels.html
Also, what the kids channels turn into at night. I used to watch Trouble on Sky and at night it turned into porn. My dad was in a meeting and it suddenly switched on the t.v. behind him.

How can we get a realistic handle on figures. 50 million people watching 2 videos paints a different one than 2 million watching 50 videos, and can we correlate those watching with those seeking real life sexual services? It MAY be that there is a specific group of extreme porn fans who are also asking sex workers for similar acts which could be painting a darker picture, whilst larger numbers are sticking with mainstream porno and that's not being reflected?
I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but it might be.

Still, it is extremely worrying if commercial porn producers are seeing more extreme porno as a way to differentiate themselves. It seems incongruous with the 'no longer seedy' image they've been trying to cultivate for decades. I think that thin veneer is wearing off rapidly when 'teen', 'daughter' and 'forced' are marketed without blinking.

Very specifically for young women. Never ever allow yourself to be choked. Interrupting the blood flow to the brain through the carotid artery is considered deadly force when used by LEOs.
It is called deadly force because it can kill you on the spot or a few days later. NEVER ALLOW IT. Serioulsy! Better they beat you up for rejecting them than they kill you with their pornsick kink moves.

Someone's popped on to say it's better paedophiles watch acted underage because it'll stop them actually abusing children hmm

The opposite is true.

It acts as a desensitisation process. It’s a similar process to serial killers starting out harming animals. Men who watch these videos are more likely, not less likely, to harm children. It’s not an outlet, it’s practice.

Stuff they can watch on mainstream telly includes Geordie Shore, naked attraction and my teenage DS was watching MTV on catchup,(what I used to think was a music channel) & it had this shit on 'content includes faster orgasms, anal sex and blow job technique'

You can suck dick better!

You can take up it the arse!

And men can stop wasting so much time getting you to orgasm!

Ah. Modern romance.

Valentinesfart Modern Romance - Harvard University invited porn industry members in to teach anal and deep throat classes:
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/harvard-anal-sex-class_n_6102804
thefederalist.com/2014/11/19/institution-of-lower-learning-sex-week-at-harvard/

The sex industry has got a strangle hold on what is being researched and published at the universities. It is also seeping in, from porn & sex shop given lectures to halls of residences being used by pimps and sex traffickers over the summer:
www.ibtimes.co.uk/hungarian-sex-traffickers-jailed-after-using-university-sussex-halls-residence-makeshift-brothel-1460080

The pimp in question was connected to one of the pro-prostitution academics at the institution, whose research included engaging in unwilling, child slaves. What a gent! Julie Bindel's Pimping of Prostitution & Kat Banyard's Pimp State are good in this area.