19 year old DD tells me ALL boys want to throttle.

[Spidermama]

I've just been left feeling really angry and powerless. DD tells me pretty much all boys 'even nice ones' like to put their hands around girl's throats semi strangling them as part of sex. She's told me other horrible things about what girls her age are fully expected to put up with.
She says the boys get it from porn and there's nothing unusual about it.

I and I'm sure many of us women, have put up with things during sex that we've not really liked just to get it over with. But this is getting ridiculous! It makes me so sad to think of all these young women having to put up with these levels of violence and hatred in something which is supposed to be enjoyable for them.

What can she do. I know how hard it is to stop things being done to you mid act.

It’s so sad - are young women going to have to reel off a list of extreme acts they’re not willing to do before having sex?

Precisely. These are not things that come standard in a sexual encounter. Not that there should be a standard anyway, but to whatever extent there is a generally agreed upon idea of "this usually happens during het sex" (mutual masturbation, mutual oral, PIV) strangling is absolutely not on that list of things that you can generally assume most people will be up for. And women being put in a position of having to list off the things that we're not OK with is not reasonable. A man who puts a woman in that position is not one you want to be shagging, and I think that's a big part of what OP's daughter needs to hear. Sex should not be a hostage negotiation where you're bargaining the guy down to a position that you still aren't happy with but which is somewhat less awful than what he initially suggested. A man who approaches sex that way is not a man who you should trust or want to be around.

This is something I’ve done but more just playing and I enjoyed it. It was not proper strangulation. With someone I trusted. That’s the very very important part.

However I have had a friend who had a man suddenly start to strangle her the first time they slept together. She was really upset and I did try and persuade her to involve the police but she wouldn’t. I think she felt it didn’t matter or she was at fault no matter what I said.

I imagine it’s more common than people like to believe.

I'm 20 OP, and I'd tell my husband to pack his bags if he tried strangling/choking me

Never considered this normal, and my peer groups all watched porn. I've never been with anyone who's even suggested it and I've had my fling with some right sorts, I tell you!

This is something I’ve done but more just playing and I enjoyed it. It was not proper strangulation. With someone I trusted. That’s the very very important part.

What mature adults do in consenting relationships is not my concern at all. You do you, you know?

But there is absolutely no way adolescents still exploring sex and their sexual identity and, indeed, still in a vital period of identity formation generally, should be exploring throttling or any type of BDSM. These are things for people with mature sexualities in mature relationships.

I had several, very trenchant, conversations with my sons about this when they were growing up. I can only hope those conversations did some good.

Over accessibility to porn again, the lads can't get off on 'regular' sex anymore, they think they need to perform like a porn perv, the girls think they should be watching porn, like a how to manual.
The age old problem of 'everyone's doing xyz' er, no they are not.

I'll be ensuring my DS (x2) know that Chocking & anal have no place in any ( esp. teenage) fledgling relationship.

Building up love and respect for each other with clothes on is great to boost each other's confidence. Esp to the point when you feel ready to go to the next level, sexual tension aplenty.
I doubt it comes naturally to anyone to put there hands around a partners throat, it's not like kissing someone's neck and being affectionate, it's conditioning by the porn industry.

Here is an artical that talks about porn and how girls and young women are being damaged by what has become 'main' stream acts......

I'm 23, and sadly of the few men I've slept with all but DP tried pushing the boundaries and as a teenager I did not feel empowered to say no when I felt uncomfortable. I have permanent physical damage from violent anal sex. At the time I convinced myself I was just being sexually adventurous, I had positive responses from my partners for playing up to a pornographic stereotype. There was a very thin line between being 'frigid' or being a 'slut' so there was no winning as a teenage girl surrounded by pornsick teenage boys. The 'sex positive' brand of feminism that was popular among my teenage peers did absolutely nothing to combat the damage porn is doing to developing adults. I dread to think about how bad it will be once my DD is a teenager. I didn't feel I could talk to my DM about anything to do with sex, I hope by cultivating a more open and honest relationship with DD that she will feel able to open up to me if she is struggling with issues surrounding sex and relationships. Your daughter is talking to you about it OP, and that is a big step in the right direction.

occamsrazor

Oh my god. I am going to repost the link to that article. That is so horrible and sad. What an awful social experiment allowing teenagers non-stop access to porn.

fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

I remember "before the watershed" controversies!

To silkpyjamasallday

I just asked my 21 year old ds and he said a lot of his friends think its normal As is forcing a womans head down but he isn't one of them. Thank god!

The terrifying thing is that this will be the next excuse for violent men to get away with murder.

That happened to an acquaintance of mine, nearly 30 years ago. Accidental death during sex play.

On the flip side, I do feel like girls are less and less likely to put up with this kind of shit. The rise of the internet has many downsides but one of the plusses is that these things are spoken about widely in forums and sites just like this one. Women can discuss, share and realise that it genuinely is ok not to go along with things just to appease their bf / because everyone does it / it's expected. I am a secondary teacher and the girls I teach are increasingly vocal about how they are treated. From shutting down comments on their appearance (my favourite was when a boy loudly proclaimed, "I don't like it when girls wear too much make-up!" to be met with a withering, "Girls really don't care what you like!"), to openly discussing issues such as DV and rape - I really think the next generation are not going to bow down to these demands and instead will hopefully instigate some change. I am always very proud of and roundly encourage their attitude. It's wonderful to see.

When she says 'all boys' what exactly is she basing this on? And does she know this is actually happening and not just lads trying to big themselves up.
I know a lot has changed over the last few years but I certainly never knew of any of these things as a teenager.
I think you need to have a strong chat with her that no it's not actually 'normal' or expected behaviour, no not all girls do, and no girls don't have to.

Well that is just not true is it? I got told all sorts of bullshit about sex when I was that age.. like 'hell expect you to do this, men aways do this' and none of it turned out to be true. Its just kids winding each other up. Im sure there might be a few young guys into that but its absurd to think that ALL or even the majority of young boys would actually know that they enjoy that or think to try it out on a young girl, even if they had seen it in pornography. Not many young men are completely unhinged and would attempt to throttle a girl without any preamble to see if it was okay. I think the problem is more that the girls are telling each other that its normal and men 'expect' it. Tell your daughter that that is very much not the case and she should not accept any behaviour she is uncomfortable with. Tell her that a guy who 'expects' anything from her is an absolute bellend and she should tell him to jog on and find one of the many normal/respectful ones who are actually out there.

“Well that is just not true is it? I got told all sorts of bullshit about sex when I was that age.. like 'hell expect you to do this, men aways do this' and none of it turned out to be true.”

I agree. But how many of us didn’t find out it wasn’t true until too late? And how much of the bullshit we were told would be likely to have caused us actual physical harm, or even kill us? And was there actual readily available video to prove that, actually, other women do do whatever it is?

'Accidental' strangulation during sex has already been used as a defense in several murder cases.

betrand well thats why the OP needs to assure her daughter that this is bollocks and that her daughter has a perfect right to stand up for herself and what she is comfortable with and that there are many young men who will completely respect that.

Im not that old there was lots of porn around when I was in my late teens and I was aware of it. I understood that it was fantasy and that those women in many cases were being paid, and you could tell when you saw some of it that the women werent really into it. I think most reasonable young men understood that as well. Granted there are some about who dont, but they are just as likely to be dickheads for other reasons with or without access to porn.

Basically I just think it all need frank and honest discussion rather than shock and horror. Porn has not emotional context in most cases and it bares very little resembelance to relationships in real life because of this. I think that is actually a lot easier to understand for teenagers than people give them credit for. Theres a lot more going on when you form your first romantic relationships than just sex. If you get together with a boy who genuinely cares about you and whom you can talk openly with you wont encounter that many issues around this regardless of how much porn you have both seen.

“If you get together with a boy who genuinely cares about you and whom you can talk openly with you wont encounter that many issues around this regardless of how much porn you have both seen.”

I agree. But you are pretty naive if you think that this is the context of most young people’s sex lives, desirable though it obviously is.

bertrand but it can be and it is what you should be aiming for. Just accepting that 'all guys want to throttle' is not great. They dont. Dickheads will insist on trying to throttle you and you should not give them the time of day if you arent interested in that. I think thats the lesson that should be driven home. Not 'oh god what are we going to do about porn? everything is terrible' Thats not actually very helpful for the OPs daughter is it? I think she needs reassurance that she should not settle for anything less than complete respect.

She needs that AND advice on how to navigate the minefield of sex and dating with boys who've been watching hardcore streaming porn online since they were 10 or 12 years old. It's not that same as it was even 10 years ago.

I am starting to hope my young daughters will be gay and have only gay relationships.

Why should she date boys who have been watching hardcore porn since they were 10 and have at 19 not yet noticed the problems and issues with that? I would not think they were great guys to date. You can have access to these things and still develop into a reasonable male adult who doesnt insist that the acts depicted in porn he has seen are normal.
I simply refuse to believe that you should have to navigate dealing with men who havent actually thought to themselves 'hang on a minute?' Why waste her time? There ARE decent 19 year old out there who despite having access to porn are still intelligent and considerate individuals who are capable of thinking that women may be human beings with their own desires and boundaries. If a guy hasnt at least started to think that by the time they reach 19 then they should be avoided not 'navigated' around.

It feels like it's a complex issue with difficult timing, for many parents they're only just becoming aware of the extent of the porn problem (oh for the days when porn was a naked lady with a 'natural' body!) when it's already 'too late'

I'm hoping as we all become more and more aware, we will start to educate our sons better. My son is a baby but I'm already planning these conversations, which I'm not sure would have occurred to a parent 20 years ago

It's not that same as it was even 10 years ago.

No, it isn't. And we are at a point where a prominent teen magazine for girls posts articles about anal sex which instruct on how to endure, and have no mention of female sexual pleasure to the point that the clitoris is omitted from the diagram. Parents are going to have to get pro-active on this, with both their sons and daughters. I spent a lot of time criticising mainstream TV sex to my husband when my kids were in the room. "Do TV directors think ramming women from behind with a furious look on your face is the way most men have sex? Jesus. I pity their partners." My kids would roll their eyes at the horror of Mothers Talking About Sex In Public but hopefully some of it sank in.

@windchimes

Great, then perhaps you can tell her where she can find some boys like that, since there seem to be a distinct lack of them in her current social circle.

Again, things have changed in ways that you don't seem to be aware of. Statistically speaking there are no boys that age who haven't been soaking in porn since they were children. What that means is that girls the age of the OPs daughter face a very different situation than most of us did at their age. I'm all for telling the violent, misogynistic little shits that she's been encountering to go to hell, but it's really not as simple as you want it to be when an entire generation has been impacted by this in a way never seen before.