'Engaging trans people in swimming' (aka penises are ok in the lady's changing rooms, but transmen must cover their breasts)

[pisacake]

www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a
space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the
gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery
may still look like a male to others, and conversely with female to male trans customers.
"

"You should adopt a zero tolerance policy on any transphobic
behaviour from staff or centre users.

1. Try to encourage your workforce to be aware of any potential

transphobia likely to happen before or after a session, both in or around the centre, and empower them to challenge transphobic language, attitudes and behaviours from other staff members, customers and the general public too."

"Some swimmers who were born female but now identify
differently may wear what is called a ‘binder’ – this is a
tight piece of material that is wrapped around the top half
of the body in order to compress breasts to conceal them
behind clothing. This is perfectly safe to swim in, and
should be encouraged."

"Some swimmers may have a preference to wear less
clothing than usually expected. For example, some
swimmers may not want to wear anything on their top half,
so as to identify with their new gender, but if they have
not had top surgery this means that this person’s breasts
will be clearly visible. This needs to be talked about and an
amicable solution found. This may be appropriate to allow
during a trans specific session, but if a trans swimmer is
attending any other session in the timetable, then they
should be appropriately covered up – you wouldn’t allow a
woman to swim topless in a public session, and you need
to treat everyone the same."

So basically trans-identified women must cover up, but trans-identified men can shower nude with women and the women needed to be 'educated' to understand this. And if anyone complains turf them out under the 'zero tolerance against transphobia' policy.

Would petition help - so far I have :

This petition is to request swim England to revise their new guidelines regarding changing rooms.

If people are naked and feeling vulnerable, they should be changing with members of their birth sex

OMFG Nat address the issue being discussed here. No one here is saying that transmen are monsters. We are saying that self ID opens a gateway to men who are not trans but will be allowed to enter womens spaces with their dick out. SO what if technically anyone with a penis wanting to enter women only spaces has to go to court, say they ID as a woman, change name etc. This is no good in a swimming pool changing room with no cubicles.

.

Imagine I enter changing room, someone with a cock is walking about

Me: excuse me, men aren't allowed in here
Cock: I'm a woman
Me: have you been through all the appropriate channels for that?
Cock: Yes.
Me: oh ok then. Do carry on.

I've never been to a pool where the changing rooms were supervised, not even when I was at school. Is this hypothetical pool in a prison? Are these lifeguards who're making sure nobody slips on a piece of soap on the floor and dies? I'm so confused.

The idea that members of the sex known for their habit of sending women unsolicited pictures of their genitalia via every medium available would never, ever take advantage of the opportunity to enter a women's changing room and do the same thing up close and personal is, well, maybe "naive" would be the kind way to put it.

If men were as dedicated and inventive about anything else as they are about perving on women we'd have a cure for cancer and flying cars by now.

Oh and btw when I was a kid in the 70s it was well known that 'dirty old men' and 'perverts' would hang out at the pool to ogle young kids and/or young women in their bathing suits. It was to a certain extent 'accepted' in a way that would not be today. Imagine the field day they would have had if self ID was allowed back then?

Soon, you won't have to imagine.

My local pool, SE london has 2 cubicles and the rest is open changing. Two cubicles!!! The only.member of staff i've seen.in there is the cleaner.

Petition petition petition

What else?

I have written to swim England.

Tweet them?

If men were as dedicated and inventive about anything else as they are about perving on women we'd have a cure for cancer and flying cars by now

Yep

Sorry lovelyusername! It's a really good idea. I think the safeguarding element is the way forward. Can anyone point us in the direction of the specific safeguarding responsibilities this body has?

@suitedandbooted on the thread in AIBU mentioned th safeguarding issues. Ie the requirement for DbA checks to work with children

And boycott swim England - will get a list of pools shortly

That is a word that will be listened to, more than ‘women’s concerns’

Why do MRAs always capitalize random words like that? Is there some sort of training program where they sit them down and go, now, son, if you really Want your words to make an Impact then you need to make sure that you write Like this?

Maybe men are sitting back now, taking a rest waiting for women to Invent a cure for cancer

Fair enough: in that case they need to be taking on all the childcare, housework etc to free us up, in the same way that women have historically facilitated male invention.

Not distracting us with exhausting fights over our basic rights and safety would help too.

And why the actual fuck has autocorrect taken to capitalising Male? I've got better things to do than keep going back and changing it

Is it time for this?

Yep I think it is about time.

There has to be someone I guess.

Shorter Craig.

d165vjqq8ey7jy.cloudfront.net/images-uploaded/19573/172270537_cef84daa6e__large.jpg

CraigyRich
Kevlar, Beer, Fire Escapes.
Just 3 things women have Invented.

Rosalind Franklin. Any idea who she is?
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130519-women-scientists-overlooked-dna-history-science/