Hampstead Heath Women's Pond

[Gacapa]

Hampstead Heath ladies say swimming pond is not gender fluid

dailym.ai/2El0eLA

Here we go...

I have visions of the stoning scene in Life of Brian.... "are there any women here today?" "no" "no"

I'm giggling into my porridge at the thought....

In December, Swim England produced a new guide on trans.

'You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery may still look like a male to others,'

you should enable trans people to use the facilities which they feel to be most appropriate.

www.swimming.org/swimengland/guide-engaging-trans-people-swimming/

Last year Swim England supported Stonewall in creating an LGB&T inclusion toolkit for sports clubs and community groups.

What a fucking surprise. People are being absolutely brainwashed into this shit.

a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery may still look like a male to others,

May?????

It's the capacity for total self delusion that gets me every time.

No words. No, I don't need to be "educated". Perhaps they do, though? About women's boundaries and rights to privacy and dignity?

That absolutely enrages me. So instead of our boundaries being respected, we need education??

Orwellian re-education I think. Everything we knew about ourselves needs correcting.

"You may need to do some education work with other centre users"

ie shut the fuck up or get out.

Swim England are the ones who do my 8 and 10 yo DDs swimming club. I didn't know they would be educated into not worrying if large penis-people come in and start disrobing next to them.

Because the penis people know best and their comfort is paramount at all times, amirite.

Swiming clubs are often in schools where changing is communcal and separated only by sex.

For all the claims of what does it matter if it's all cubicles.

The showers are open and communal too.

There was one in USA wasn't there where the girls felt uncomfortable changing in front of the trans girl and so they all had to go and take it in turns to change in a cupboard

The things we have to do ... Of course the other effect is that we stop exercising / participating in sport which is strangely also aligned with MRA wishes, lots of men think women have no place in sport anyway.

Education work

Well, history tends to repeat itself. I wonder how long it’ll be until we have a modern version of this:

http://www.pwf.cz/archivy/texts/articles/china-re-education-camps_2198.html

Only instead of physical labour we’ll have to sit all day filling out ‘diversity’ workbooks and chanting “Transwomen are women”.

'When offering single-sex sessions in your timetable, remember that you must enable trans swimmers to attend the sessions they would like to according to their gender identity, which may take some initial support and some education with other centre users.'

Detailed pamphlet here:
www.swimming.org/library/documents/2857/download

Apparently they took advice from Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence.

Email: [email protected]

How on earth have Swim England been able to avoid the requirements of the Equality Laws for sex segregated changing rooms?

And this is happening everywhere, without consent and without awareness. The terrible thing is that this won't be challenged until dreadful things have happened to children and women - and only then will people realise what has happened and start safeguarding again.

I wonder whether we need to start using Freedom of Information requests in a more systematic way, ie,
Who wrote the Swim England's policy?
Which groups did they consult with?
Did they consult any women's groups?
Have they risk assessed the dangers to girls and women from allowing self ID men into changing rooms?
What were the outcomes from these risk assessments?
What steps have they taken to ensure that women from faith groups who are unable to share changing rooms with born males are not discriminated against and unable to use facilities?
etc etc....

Only instead of physical labour we’ll have to sit all day filling out ‘diversity’ workbooks and chanting “Transwomen are women”.

I'll be stressing the last syllable.

wonder whether we need to start using Freedom of Information requests in a more systematic way, ie,
Who wrote the Swim England's policy?
Which groups did they consult with?
Did they consult any women's groups?
Have they risk assessed the dangers to girls and women from allowing self ID men into changing rooms?
What were the outcomes from these risk assessments?
What steps have they taken to ensure that women from faith groups who are unable to share changing rooms with born males are not discriminated against and unable to use facilities?

YY. This is exactly what we need to do.

Good questions guardianfree, and it would be worth asking them.

I'm sure they never consulted women's groups. What's the equivalent to Stonewall for women?

My impression is that Equality Act 2010 enables but does not enforce female-only services, and then the onus is on the organization to make the case why it is necessary. It's like Lily Madigan as Women's Officer. The Labour Party could restrict these posts to AFAB (!) women but there is no legal obligation to do so.

It's like Lily Madigan as Women's Officer. The Labour Party could restrict these posts to AFAB (!) women but there is no legal obligation to do so.

Are they not required to do an impact assessment, though?

Oh that is an interesting document.

There is a whole section about trans only swimming sessions that I don't think anyone would argue with if the inetrest is enough to make it viable. This bit though:

"The trans community is very similar to some faith communities in terms of the privacy initially needed when accessing the pool."

But those same faith communities will not be able to attend any more as a result of their policies soooo.....

Reading on

There is a lot about how trans people need lots of privacy and stuff which also presumably women, whether trans or not, don't.

Of course many men don't like to get undressed in front of people with vaginas & breasts either, however people with vaginas and breasts are far less likely to be keen to get into the mens changing to watch them taking their clothes off, and the physical threat is completely different. Both in terms of likelihood and ability to carry it out.

They won't comment officially to say whether the rules have been changed. So difficult to say. Can we do an FOI?

"Where non-binary customers wish to use the
pool i.e. those people whose gender identity
does not fit naturally into male and female
identities, you should encourage them to
attend sessions that are open to everyone."

?????????????????????????????????????????

Where do they change though?
And I mean, these people don't literally HAVE NO SEX what on earth.

Plus according to topshop, non binary people can go where they fancy and swim englad are behind the times.

Going to check out swim england women policy.

There is a lot about how trans people need lots of privacy and stuff which also presumably women, whether trans or not, don't.

How surprising I bet Transwall and Gendered Unintelligence wrote the whole thing.

The page on inclusion and diversity has a picture of 2 girls at the top and then goes on to not mention girls as far as I've read.

It does have this note:

"Swim England is responsible for regulation within its sports. These are gender-affected sports as defined by legislation, and we expect clubs to abide by our rules.

This is because physical strength, stamina or physique of average persons of one sex would put them at a disadvantage to average persons of the other sex.

We adopted a policy on trans competitors in November 2011. This was to ensure equal and fair competition in the sports, and to ensure the safety of competitors."

OK so the equality and diversity page at the top has a pic of 2 girls,

It talks about disability and LGBT issues (they mean trans here not anyone else).

The D&I guidance for clubs is not available - I get a timeout.
I found it somewhere else and it is not very informative.

This is all by the by though isn't it.

Fact is that the specific issues around swimming and women/girls are certainly not included on their website or their equalities piece. Which is interesting.

Oh for fuck's sake, they aren't gender affected sports. They're sex-affected.

But there's a mixed fucking pool! Already! There was a pool for men, amd a pool for women, and a pool for everyone, and now there are two mixed pools and one for men only. In what fucking universe is this anything other than taking from one group to give to another?!

"Gender" used in this way makes me grind my teeth. Every single time. I was watching something earlier where people had to record their sex because they were dieting and measuring progress and of course they used fucking "gender". Arrgh! Fat lot of use it would be to know if they identified as a non binary asexual!