Hampstead Heath Women's Pond

[Gacapa]

Hampstead Heath ladies say swimming pond is not gender fluid

dailym.ai/2El0eLA

Here we go...

[ForalltheSaints]

No I am not being a zombie!

There is a documentary on limited release called 'The Ponds' which is about the Ladies, Mens and Mixed Ponds at Hampstead. On limited release. Worth seeing.

[R0wantrees]

These threads are useful though so despite Tut's intentions... there is pertinent discussion here about how organisations are reluctant to use Equality Act single-sex legislation that exists (for now at least!) and there may well be new browsers to the board.

This week Pink News led with a slightly misleading headline, 'Primark investigating after trans woman ‘refused entry’ to women’s changing room'
(not for the first time of course, remember, their scoop, 'Anti-trans activists hit out at ‘parasitic’ trans people at event in Parliament') -
at some point, there does need to be consideration of the impact these have in fuelling fears within LGBT+ community

As the body of the article shows, it seems by the 'friend's' public twitter complaint that a trans woman was asked for id (which she had) before going into the female changing rooms. The asking for id, being transphobic.
The friend is an active member of Oxford LGBT
As Pink News have highlighted, Primark were found guilty earlier this year for discriminating on the basis of gender identity against their employee.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/18/primark-investigating-after-trans-woman-refused-entry-to-womens-changing-room/

This was being discussed as there are (like women only swim sessions) conflicting issues... & the reasons why women and girls need safe spaces is often ignored or dismissed.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225459-Primark-Coventry-challenged-for-asking-trans-woman-for-ID-before-allowing-entry-to-female-changing-rooms

This discussion was rather overshadowed by EH's data breech and the consequences of this.

It is though worth linking to the thread which so incensed EH (previously NUS LGBT) was with regards a presentation/workshop/ instructions? on 'How to deal with Terfs' given at NUS Women's by a Trans Rights rep and Women's rep.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs
The slideshow and 'recommended' reading is very concerning.
EH's reaction at the time seemed due to her closeness to the Oxford based NUS Women's rep who had published the slides although of course the long standing commitment to her beliefs is well known.

There are different types of activism... and as Helen Lewis in The New Statesman commented yesterday,

The Wolf affair also demonstrates another alarming phenomenon: the left getting high on its own supply of self-righteousness. “Some feminists have a different conception of gender to me” gets smudged into “some feminists talk about me in ways that I find offensive” and on to “some feminists are basically Hitler, trying to eradicate people like me”.

Once you reach the last statement, then of course you can slap a woman and still think of yourself as a good person. She wants to kill you; a mere punch is self-defence. (I’m not exaggerating about the language. The Edinburgh branch of Action for Trans Health tweeted the day after the attack: “Punching TERFs is the same as punching Nazis. Fascism must be smashed with the greatest violence to ensure our collective liberation from it.”

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old

[busyboysmum]

I think they must be employing the same people who send you those emails saying you've won a fortune just enter your bank account details here....

[JessicaJonesJacket]

I'm pitying MNHQ having to deal with the influx of trolls and gfs atm.

[ArcheryAnnie]

Have reported TutTut for badly-written homophobia.

[Onemorning]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[LizzieSiddal]

Homophobic nonsense, TutTut.

[Kneedeepinunicorns]

Reported. Yawn. Poor HQ.

[DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus]

TutTut you're being silly, and homophobic, please stop.

[athingthateveryoneneeds]

They are quite obvious, bless their cotton socks.

[AngryAttackKittens]

On top of everything else I'm pretty sure that "lipo in her breast" is not a thing.

There has been a marked increase in the rate of trolly, goady posts and comments. If this is a strategy it's not being executed very well so far.

[JessicaJonesJacket]

Is this part of the strategy of resurrecting old threads to distract posters from discussing current issues? Or is it part of pretending MN is homophobic?
Either way, you're being disingenuous and tedious TutTut.

[athingthateveryoneneeds]

#TGLWGH

[2rebecca]

If the "lesbian" looked and acted like a man then how do you know the person wasn't male and trans? Your post doesn't make sense unless the person was obviously just a flat chested unfeminine woman who may or may not have been lesbian.

[IfNot]

A trans woman or otherwise gender non conforming man would be very safe in the men's pond at Hampstead. It's definitely not the sort of crowd that are heavily invested in policing masculinity!

This!!!^
For fucksake. The men at the men's pond are in no way a threat to transsexuals, transvestites, or any man in a bikini.
And even if they were..well, once I would have had sympathy. I would have said " oh, g'wan love, all welcome" and pretended the builder in a one piece was a girl.
Not anymore. Frankly, if trans identifying men are in danger among other men, that's not my problem. The problem is violent MEN, so don't make me and other women responsible for male behaviour.
You want men to be nicer to you? Take it up with them.
I'm RAGING. I spent many a Summer at the ladies pond as a young un. Full of lesbians and you never felt like you had your shave your legs! FUCKERS.

[Valentinesfart]

"there's more to being a woman than your genitalia"

Just once I want a reasonable answer to that that encompasses all women. Even if it genuinely includes trabswomen

[busyboysmum]

amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/09/debate-over-inclusion-of-trans-women-in-women-only-spaces-intensifies?__twitter_impression=true

[CertainHalfDesertedStreets]

I am so looking forward to the summer. We can all go to the men's pool together en famille ('I'm Brian and so is my wife.')

How trans do I have to be? I have short hair and usually wear jeans and flat sandals. But my toenails will be painted and I have tits and a fanjo and XX chromosomes but that'll do it right?

Ds is too young for the swimming ponds but if I coach him to say 'I identify as an eight year old' he'll pass I reckon.

[EamonnWright]

Can’t they just have a willy pool and a non-willy pool and a either pool

That's what they have but some with willys want in where the non willys are. Any other time in history this would be a red flag but apparently this is progress, just not as you know it.

[ForalltheSaints]

The observation I made in an earlier comment some weeks ago was that men would be less offended if a woman who had not undergone surgery turned up in the men's pond.

I am fairly sure that the men in the men's pond would not feel threatened either.

[Fekko]

Can’t they just have a willy pool and a non-willy pool and a either pool?

[VivaLeBeaver]

So basically there’s now three mixed pools? Great.

[ForalltheSaints]

NaturalBlondeYeahRight I had a similar response the week before last. Not exactly the same response as I am a man.

Text below.

'Thank you for taking the time to contact us in relation to the Hampstead Heath Ladies’ Pond.

Transgender women have been able to use the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond, and Transgender men have been able to use the Highgate Men’s Pond since the introduction of the Equalities Act 2010, which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of transgender status. There has been no change in policy, and the way in which people are able to use the ponds has not changed recently.

Staff at Hampstead Heath, including the Lifeguarding Team, undertook Trans awareness training in 2016 and 2017. This training was also extended to user groups who felt that this was valuable and supported this approach.

We are currently working on guidelines, which will further assist our staff and visitors. We will be discussing this further with our user groups early in 2018.

The City of London is committed to gender respect and equality in all forms.

We will continue to work with user groups and visitors to ensure that our facilities are inclusive environments for all, free from discrimination, harassment or victimisation.'

[RagingWoman]

I got an identical reply and have written back to say Youre Wrong! And attached a link to that article (thank you)
The fact that they referred to it as the Equalities Act was the first red flag...