Hampstead Heath Women's Pond

[Gacapa]

Hampstead Heath ladies say swimming pond is not gender fluid

dailym.ai/2El0eLA

Here we go...

[DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus]

hiya, the changing rooms are no longer sex segregated either. there is a mixed pool, and a men's pool. All needs are met. Now men have taken this pool and the changing rooms away from women 'cos they want to.

I guess you only get worked up about this stuff if you give a shit about women and girl's rights and I understand lots of people don't. sad really.

[LangCleg]

Slightly struggle to see why so many adjustments need to be made for these "women who have been abused".

Charming.

Personally, I struggle - and not slightly - to see why so many adjustments need to be made for these "men who struggle in the man box".

When I was recovering from an illness and had trouble with certain forms of exercise, I used to do lane swimming to get my fitness levels back up. Didn't have the lung capacity for freestyle, so did breast stroke. At least every third session, a bloke (and not always the same bloke) would organise it so that he could swim behind me. If I changed lanes, so would the bloke. Yes, I complained. Yes, the staff had a word. But it's wearing that this is a regular thing. In the end, I just went to the women-only session so that I could do my lengths without distraction.

And I'm not even an abuse survivor, to whom this would matter much, much more.

Try for a bit of fellow feeling, janesmom. Or, as others have said, try being a bit less obvious with the baiting.

[IrkThePurist]

Why should the men get 3 ponds and women no ponds? Seriously, are men this fragile? Its like watching a spoiled kid at someone else's birthday party.

[glenthebattleostrich]

Frankly I don't care which 'type' of women use it. It's just another bunch of TRAs trampling over women's boundaries and demanding women's spaces.

There is a perfectly good mixed space and a man's space. If the TRAs don't want to use them then campaign for their own space.

I'm going to repeat this on every bloody trans thread until the TRAs and their handmaidens get it. I will not compromise my boundaries for anyone's feelings. If that makes you sad and think I'm being literally violent or whatever bullshit I am past caring. I don't care what anyone identifies as, you identity does not give you the right to trample my boundaries. I won't apologize, I won't accept your insults. Learn that tolerance works both ways and show some respect for women for a damned change.

[ATeardropExplodes]

Surely this proves it is not about access, or rights as they have access to 2 other pools, and every right to be in either of those.

It's just about infiltrating women's spaces.

[SophoclesTheFox]

Husband just showed me the article on this and we had a good rant about it.

Heaven forbid women should get anything to ourselves. There's a perfectly good mixed bathing pond there, but no. Doesn't offer the same opportunity to trample all over women's boundaries, so evidently it won't do.

And women are falling all over themselves to roll out the red carpet! I'm sorry, but if I'm not reading stories of inappropriate behaviour or worse within a year, then I will eat my hat.

I'm tempted to get myself up to the men's pond. Anyone with me?

[Beltane18]

Sophocles, the thing is, if we go to the men's pond as a group, they will not feel threatened. Nor should they. It might be worth trying to get a group to make a point but if the men just shrug - which seems likely - then nothing will happen.

[SophoclesTheFox]

I know. In my head it would prove a point, but in reality it would just make us seem a bit nuts.

It's very depressing.

[Beltane18]

sorry if this has been asked before

they're saying "if you have started the process of transitioning you can use the women's pond" - what would that mean, "starting the process"?

[DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus]

It appears to mean putting a bikini on Beltane.

[SophoclesTheFox]

what would that mean, "starting the process"?

From what I can make out, one can make a good start by yelling "TERF" at women on the internet, and everything else flows from there...

But joking aside, it could actually mean anything from starting some sort of treatment for severe, crippling dysphoria to just enjoying cracking one out while wearing your wife's knickers. It's all under the sparkly umbrella of trans.

I am sure that the women who want to be inclusive are imagining that they are being kind to the first sort of person, but I tend to believe that the very men who would want to go to the ladies pond in preference to the mixed pond are exactly the last kind of man you'd want there - their presence there announces that they think women having boundaries isn't as important as their feelings. I mistrust that.

[Beltane18]

I wonder where I can get a definition of "starting the process".... I mean the Corp running the ponds aren't asking for a doctor's letter.

you know what I think would help? A group of male TERFs just dressing up in bikinis and going to the women's pond - obviously having forewarned users in advance. The press and public might actually take notice of that. If you could get say 20 men to go and say "well I've started the process" then the press would ask "what does that mean" and it would get attention.

[ContemporaryPankhurst]

I like your idea Beltane18.

Yet another space & right for women has been lost and this is before the GRA passes. After the GRA will women be able to be in public anywhere without the presence of a man?

I was once taken to the women's swimming session at my local pool and the change in atmosphere was remarkable. It felt so relaxed and liberating.

It annoys me that the left is supporting the idea that it is fine for a man to define what a women is. That a man's feelings are more important than a women's. They see this as natural because of male supremacy, we have all been culturally groomed into patriarchy so it can be unconscious. As Andrea Dworkin wrote in Pornography (1981) 'The power of men is first a metaphysical assertion of self, an I am that exists a priori, a bedrock, absolute, no embellishment or apology required'. Women are denied this possibility, as shown by the trans narrative. Dworkin continued that 'it is naming by decree that is power over and against those who are forbidden to name their own experience'. Women have been so dehumanised that public policy now sees us as a costume, articles of clothing now define and express what was once part of our humanity.

The only importance wealth - (this is in response to other posters saying, I believe incorrectly, that it affects only rich white ladies) has in the Trans debate is looking at whose boundaries are not being stomped on. For example, Eton will now admit trans girls (biologically boys) but not girls who feel like boys (biologically girls), in law aristocratic inheritance will pass estates on to trans women (biologically male) but not trans men (biologically female). It appears that those with the wealth to afford to defend their rights can?

[BlindFaythe]

Christ.

Haven't been to the Ladies Pond since my childhood, when it was where my mum went to sunbathe topless in peace and loads of lesbians had picnics. It was great, and certainly not 'just for rich white women' in those days (I was from a caaaaancil estate in NW London).

The erosion of womens spaces (and rights!) is happening at lightning speed, it would seem. Fuck.

[BlackBetha]

I don't think anyone's asking for any huge adjustments to be made for women. Just to keep the women-only pool that already exists and is a long-standing tradition.

It's the minority of entitled trans males (not women, abused or otherwise) who are demanding everything be arranged to accommodate their wishes. There's no reason they couldn't use the mixed pool if their trans identity makes them feel uncomfortable in the men's.

[misscockerspaniel]

I hope that the women who swim there arrange for mass, regular swim-ins in the men's only pool. That might help get the message across.

[BlindFaythe]

Presumably a horde of females can 'identify as men' and go to the mens pool, too, then?

[TimbuktuTimbuktu]

For those of you saying the ladies pond as just for rich white women it's really not. It's essentially free (you are supposed to pay £2 but no one checks) and has always had a broad crosssection of women when I've been. it it one of my favourite places in the world. It feels so friendly and safe. If I ever have a free Sunday I love popping up there to chill and even if you are on your own there is always someone to watch your bags.

It is so rare to have an actually totally female space. I don't think I'd ever experienced one as an adult before I started going and the atmosphere is totally different to the mixed ponds. If it is invaded by TRAs it will completely change things. Such a shame.

On one visit in the summer I did encounter a TIM. He was obviously AGP. Enormous fake breasts, loads of makeup and facial surgery and an incredibly revealing swimming costume. He was behind me in the queue for the steps and I could clearly see his tucked bits sneaking out of his costume when he followed me down. (Something that could have been avoided if he'd just worn a normal swimming costume) He wasn't necessarily making a fuss but it was clear that his version of womanhood was fetishised and it made me feel somewhat uncomfortable.

It's so sad that women aren't allowed any spaces of their own.

[CertainHalfDesertedStreets]

I'm sad about this.

But on the positive side I now get to go to the men's pond right? Which has always been the better pond (obviously!)

[UrsulaPandress]

They are only going as it will be a massive turn on. Tossers.

[Quickchange1]

Surely we need as many women as possible to turn up in trunks and announce we identify as men! Works both ways. I'd even wear a mankini to do it! Surely if hetero males have their spaces invaded (golf clubs, working men's clubs, free masons etc) we might get somewhere ... sadly

[frogsoup]

It speaks volumes, doesn't it, that only the women's pond is affected. Where are all the ftm invading the male pools? Oh hang on, having been socialised as women, they don't have the same gigantically inflated sense of self-importance.

[hackmum]

Even if it was only rich white women who used the pool - and it's not - why would that matter? Why should rich white women have fewer rights than everyone else?

[Bellamuerte]

I don't have a problem with fully transitioned trans-women using the female pool. I do however object if men with all their junk intact who merely "identify" as females are permitted. The criteria for using the female pool should be having completed the transition to female.

[RavingRoo]

Quite a few of my female middle eastern London based colleagues swam there. Many still meet there with family and it’s become a family event. To them it’s vital as it’s often the only bit of exercise that is compatible with their culture.